One small step

[binx]

Ditto! And if there's another confrontation, bring trousers (and a kilt!:ninjajig:) along so you don't have to go back home. I've a pair I keep at work just in case of a hard rain, bad drink spill, or if I'm asked not to be kilted that day (hasn't happened yet), so I can change.

binx

[Topsy]

I left a tartan skirt in my locker yesterday - just in case!

Our approach is going to be simple:

Tell all males they can't have the same rights as the female staff - we file a sex distrimination action against them

Tell me I can't have those rights - we file a harrassment action

The management will (should) back down. This has outgrown my local union reps and has reached the national committee who have fighting power (and money - my money!)

On a more sombre note, I may have to bring a bullying charge against one manager for his action yesterday morning. I can't explain it now but I will not accept workplace bullying any more than in the school yard. I had witnesses to the incidents (plural intended) and will pursue an apology (at least).

More news later when I get a result.

[iain]

wow, what an interesting story..

i think even me adding a post won't be able to kill this thread!

[Departed Member]

On a more sombre note, I may have to bring a bullying charge against one manager for his action yesterday morning. I can't explain it now but I will not accept workplace bullying any more than in the school yard. I had witnesses to the incidents (plural intended) and will pursue an apology (at least).

Don't leave this too long, unless you anticipate further problems from this gentleman in the near future. More than one instance and then you have the full weight of the Harrassment Act on your side, & could take civil action if your union wouldn't take appropriate internal action. Either way, make sure you've got it all written down while it is still fresh. I did this for a work colleague (mentioned in another post) and asked (oops! demanded!) that HR place the complaint 'on file', to be used if there was a further case. It turned out I was not the only complainant. Before long, this very senior manager was 'asked to resign'. :shoot: Getting back to 'dress code' issues, I had cited an even more senior manager (my immediate 'boss' and the HR were very flustered over this) over making up 'dress codes' as he saw fit. Sadly, I never got as far as you have, thanks in part due to the only 'union' there being the TSSA, who were/are six foot up the ..............!:sad:

[AndrewH]

There is definitely a difference between a manager not approving of your work wear, and taking you aside quietly to talk to you about it, and an angry or demeaning response in front of workmates.

We have an active non-bullying policy at my place of employment, and managers have been reported and severely reprimanded for inappropriate behaviour.

Hope things sort out for you.

[hiker]

Be careful, I'm reading a lot of emotion in your writing. Humans generally read circumstances to favor their desires. I'd take a 2-day step back from the cliff before you decide to jump off (how's that for a cliche). I'm sure you will get the right to wear skirts to work, but I'd be careful how you get there.

good luck

[Topsy]

This issue is continuing its run.

I had a meeting this morning with my immediate manager (who to recap is supportive but towing the line), my union rep (who is fully with me and is in contact with the HR rep on the union national committee) and the local HR advisor (who is relatively new but versed in HR procedures).

It seems that the national HR people wrote back to the HR advisor on Friday after my intention was made clear and basically told him the rules were 'unclear' and that he should attempt to resolve the issue quickly.

His initial move was to tell my manager to stop me. That didn't work yesterday morning when I turned up in the cream skirt. The situation yesterday was very confrontational but I got the point across very clearly.

So I had an inquisition today. It turns out that they have realised that by agreeing that I have no restrictions (beyond common sense and decency) they will effectively change current policy perhaps not just for my department (20,000 odd strong) but perhaps for a few 1,000,000 more.

I demanded a sensible timescale for an answer. They reckon 1 week. My union has already stated that it wouldn't stop there (if necessary).

[Departed Member]

Good luck with your quest. Hopefully, they'll crumble. If so, barriers in other businesses, etc., etc. will be forced into line. My previous place of employ specifically banned men from wearing 'Kilts or skirts', with the full backing, nay, encouragement of the majority union. I don't know who had asked in the first place - it wasn't me!

[Topsy]

Hiker

Yesterday there was alot of emotion. I reached the point when talking to my immediate manager in an informal chat that I ended up walking out the room with tears in my eyes.

At that point I had lost the first round and wasn't ready to look forward. All that is behind me and I am stronger for the experience. Myself and my union rep feel that they don't have a leg to stand on. That gives me encouragment that this fight, the second time I've fought it in 5 years, can now be won.

[crfriend]

Yesterday there was alot of emotion.

And not without plenty of good reason, I might add. You went in and tried to face down an organisaton that can take away your livelihood in an instant (well, they can do that here in the US, maybe not quite so easily in the developed world). That takes guts! I applaud you.

All that is behind me and I am stronger for the experience. Myself and my union rep feel that they don't have a leg to stand on. That gives me encouragment that this fight, the second time I've fought it in 5 years, can now be won.

That's the way it should be. You may well be within striking distance of changing things for thousands of people. That's something to take some pride in. Persevere, and keep the lads here up to date. I know I'm waiting for the next installment.

[binx]

Don't leave this too long, unless you anticipate further problems from this gentleman in the near future. More than one instance and then you have the full weight of the Harrassment Act on your side, & could take civil action if your union wouldn't take appropriate internal action. Either way, make sure you've got it all written down while it is still fresh. I did this for a work colleague (mentioned in another post) and asked (oops! demanded!) that HR place the complaint 'on file', to be used if there was a further case. It turned out I was not the only complainant.

Absolutely necessary to get everything documented in writing, with times and dates. If you've got witnesses to the bullying incident, ask if they will work with the union to get their observations written down. Bravo for your actions that will no doubt benefit all employees.

binx

[Topsy]

Thankfully I do not need to look at the posibility of losing my job over this. That means that, so long as I act honestly, they can't touch me -nor deny me promotion in the future because of my stand.

In the UK, as elsewhere in the EU, job security is a big issue. Sure employers can sack underperforming employees but they have to be certain they could win an appeal. Some tribunal cases have brought a company down where misconduct has been practiced by the employer!

As for me, after 18 years, I have as much job protection as can be had. That means I can concentrate on the issue and not skirt around it.:ninjajig:

There won't be any more news until next week now!

[knickerless]

I must admit I admire what you are doing. However there was a similar instance some years ago when an employee of the (I believe) Hackney Borough Council went to court over his right to wear a skirt at work. I was particularly impressed by the support he got from his wife. He unfortunately failed and was doomed to wear trousers at work.

I wish you every success and if you win your name will be remembered up in lights along with Mrs Knickerbocker (or whatever her name was) who went cycling in trouser like garments and had stones thrown at her, Emily Pankhurst who campaigned for votes for women and the Feminist Germaine Grear.

If you are successful it may mean every company may have to revise their dress code. It annoys me that when we get a uniform order form only the girls have a choice of trousers and/or skirts and us men have no choice at all. At present it is unlikely that many men would tick the skirt box - but we should have the choice.

Any way I am behind you 100%


Nick

[Topsy]

Update - ish

Having been away from te office since Weds afternoon I checked my office email via a very useful laptop earlier this eve. I half expected a mail asking further questions.

What was conspicuous was the silence.

Therefore, on Monday (my only day at my desk this week) I will be firing off a few questioning emails and finding out why the promised one week answer will have turned into almost 2 weeks of silence.

So, nothing positive (or negative) to report yet. I must have given them a question to answer that is more difficult since several recent legal changes (by laws and in the senior courts).

[Since1982]

Topsy, I think they are hoping you'll just forget this zany idea (in their minds, not ours) and things will go back to what they think is "normal"..You need to go to work in a skirt again...Let them know for sure that they MUST make a decision one way or the other, because you are not going to just "let it go away" for them. I think you really need to do that. Perhaps carry a pair of tr*users in your attache case to work. In case they get really nasty about it at your job. If they do then you just call the Union and get the water boiling again...:cheer: :ninjajig: :shake: :whiteflag