One small step

[Topsy]

Having spoken to the 'management' at work a few years ago and receiving a resounding NO to my desire to wear skirts when I was office bound, I decided on Tuesday to have another go.

I spoke first to my union rep who assured me that they would support my right to choose even if this ended up as an employment tribunal issue.

The following day my immediate manager decided to have his monthly chat with me and I informed him that as of Tues 13th June I woud be exercising my right to choose. Several assurances were needed as I have a high profile customer facing job in government that includes international travel. However on the 3 days per week when I'm office-bound (IT/Telecoms/Training) there would not be a problem.

The manager of course felt he needed to seek advice and spoke to his manager who passed it to the HR people. The current position is continue until told otherwise (and then continue anyway!)

After 18 years in the job I finally feel I have won a small victory. It was certainly useful having seen the union first!

Now the only decision is what to wear on Tuesday. The female staff tell me that they are not allowed to wear denim and I will go along with day (on weekdays at least!). Given the decent weather the choice is going to be difficult but ultimately the first impressions I make will last sometime.

On Wednesday I have a course in the same building - Diversity in the Workplace:cheer:

[Stevie D]

Good news indeed, Topsy. Let us know how you get on.

When I started wearing skirts to my workplace, some 5 years ago now, I just did it. I never asked anyone's permission. I have never received any criticism, official or otherwise during that time. (And I work in a rather conservative, government-funded, science research establishment).

[Topsy]

Hi Steve

I had alot of negative feedback last time and my role then was very high profile, conducting interviews with solicitors present for example. That was why I sought acceptance first. In the past 5 years my job has changed completely (but not my title or pay!) and we work in a large open plan office not closeted in pigeonhole offices. That helped me feel that I could work with the office managers (as distinct from my own managers) in simply telling them what was to happen. I didn't seek their approval but received it anyway.

My own management is different and still work in pigeonhole offices in another town. They are conservative (small c) and resitant to social changes. My senior managers have been getting mauled in the press of late for various failings and this may influence their thinking.

I have a feeling that my own presence will help a few other male staff realise the benefits and adopt the same approach. One can but hope.

[iain]

I worked for myself the last 25 years so I can't compare my experiences: for sure yours were more of a challenge. I think what you did took a lot of guts, and I think it can only have a beneficial result for you: trust me, there will already be guys in your organisation who are hoping that you will break the ice and make it easier for them too.

[Skirt Chaser]

After 18 years in the job I finally feel I have won a small victory.

You have, but I wouldn't call it small. Having the right in theory is one thing but asserting your rights is big. Way to go, Topsy the trailblazer!

Quiet Mouse

[crfriend]

The following day my immediate manager decided to have his monthly chat with me and I informed him that as of Tues 13th June I woud be exercising my right to choose. Several assurances were needed as I have a high profile customer facing job in government that includes international travel. However on the 3 days per week when I'm office-bound (IT/Telecoms/Training) there would not be a problem.

Tuesday's coming up really fast -- please do keep us infomed of how things go!

After 18 years in the job I finally feel I have won a small victory. It was certainly useful having seen the union first!

That's not a "small victory"at all. It's a major one. Congratulations for having the guts to go for it! And WIN!!!!

[Topsy]

Thanks for the messages.

Unfortunately, as posted on IMFF, I received a call from my immediate manager yesterday eve telling me that he'd had a reply from the HR people and that they were minded to refuse me permission. He wants to see me on Tues to discuss this.

I was initially very angry but recognised the style. As I work for the state, you have to accept that working practices lag behind industry. Over the past 24 hours though, I have realised that tomorrow is less of a problem than an opportunity.

To that end I have been through my wardrobe looking for something suitable.

Given that the average day temp here right now is 75-80 F I needed something cool but acceptable in an office.

Despite my initial thoughts about a long skirt (white or other light colour) I ended up with a cream 14" skirt that comes from a suit (I have the jacket). I have brown sandals to wear but will avoid the pantihose at all costs!

I will take a pair of shorts with me in case the atmosphere becomes venemous. Shorts on male staff are equally banned:)

Overall, having spoken to most of the staff last week, the reception will be good. If there are any problems it will be with management alone.

Worst case is that they send me home. The union will resist that.

Hey ho. After 18 years they can't get rid of me that easily:think:

[Departed Member]

Are you really sure about wearing the short skirt? Ankle length can be equally cool in such dreadful temperatures, but looks extremely 'office-formal' and equally difficult for an opponent (of skirts) to condemn!

[Since1982]

I also think that you may have a bad outcome if you wear something that short. For the first time I'd definitely wear something at least knee length so as how they don't think you are shoving it in their faces. Most people can bend if it doesn't hurt too much, but if they think you're stuffing it down their throats you may find the Union or the media no longer supports you. In my opinion you want to make a statement, that's good, but giving them a real reason to deny you like the (in their minds) possibility you may be immodest is, I think, perhaps foolish. You can always wear the 14" special a few weeks down the line after you've won the freedom to wear skirts to work. Also, whatever you do decide to wear, I'd make sure it was definitely modest.

If they think you're wearing nothing below the waist but a wide cloth belt, they'd probably have a reason that the Union would accept to deny you. I know a woman can get away with a 14" miniskirt but she doesn't have the 'tween the legs package you have either. I think you should get the permission to wear a skirt to work, wear them for a while before getting out a miniskirt for work.

[crfriend]

Topsy,

Whilst I admire your courage to "take the initial plunge" in a 14-inch mini, I'd have to advise against it. Unless you're about 4-foot-two, a 14-incher is a *very* short rather risky proposition. I'd definitely go with a longer one for starters; there's no point in making a circus out of the event.

Merlin's got a very valid point that long skirts can be very cool and comfortable in hot humid weather; just wear natural fabrics and you'll be fine (Note: nylon slips can be damnably hot).

So go with classic style. modesty, and panache and you shouldn't get any grief. Getting into a tussle with Management, or a possible outright confrontation -- even with the union's backing -- just isn't worth it; if you tick them off, they'll find ways of making you miserable enough that you'll quit on your own, and that'd stink.

Good luck!

("And remember, if you, or any of your team are caught, or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.")

[Topsy]

OK, I've had a rethink.

I was earlier looking for my white linen skirt (below knee length) but I can't find it. One option is a black ankle length jersey skirt but that will not be cool (I have worn it in the winter and been kept warm).

Another is a pleated tartan skirt that sits below the knee and could be mistaken for a kilt (at a distance).

So many choices and only 10 hours left!

[crfriend]

So many choices and only 10 hours left!

My best advice at this point in time would be to wear the tartan skirt if you cannot find the linen one. That'd ease the bosses into things without jarring them too badly. If the jersey would be too warm, don't wear it -- if you're not comfortable, you won't be at your best. And whatever you wear with it, make sure it coordinates or at least "works"; ratchet the look up beyond "business casual" a bit.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but, if blokes are going to be accepted wearing skirts we'll have to pull if off with flair and style -- the old habits of just chucking something from the closet on and wandering out the door in the morning will have to go. If we don't look good in our skirts all we'll attract is derision, and that's hardly helpful.

Get some sleep, too, because you'll need that as well to be in top form come morning. And if you're not, you haven't lost anything -- you did mention that you will be exercising your "right to choose". You can always choose to wear tr*users -- it's the ability to make the choice that's important.

[Topsy]

My best advice at this point in time would be to wear the tartan skirt if you cannot find the linen one. That'd ease the bosses into things without jarring them too badly. If the jersey would be too warm, don't wear it -- if you're not comfortable, you won't be at your best. And whatever you wear with it, make sure it coordinates or at least "works"; ratchet the look up beyond "business casual" a bit.

After posting my last missive I went back to the wardrobe and got the tartan skirt out. I will find a clean white polo shirt to wear with it tomorrow (no logos).

Get some sleep, too, because you'll need that as well to be in top form come morning. And if you're not, you haven't lost anything -- you did mention that you will be exercising your "right to choose". You can always choose to wear tr*users -- it's the ability to make the choice that's important.

My point all along has been that it should be my right to choose and that is what I will emphasise tomorrow. Although they expect me in the office at 0915 I will try to be there 30 mins earlier after taking my boy to school. It's 2320 locally and Ozzy Osbourne is spouting on the box. Time to give up! At least I had time for a long shower this eve!

[Topsy]

I went to work this morning. I ended up choosing the cream skirt but it was 22 inches long (not the original 14 inches I feared) and it sat on my knees.

I spent 45 minutes in the office from 0845 without issue and only had to give one 'twirl' to an apporoving female colleague.

One senior manager, who was not based there, however was not approving and started creating issues. For various reasons I did not play along. My own manager was not there at the time.

I was eventually told to go home to change. My union rep advised me to agree as he couldn't be there but advice had been taken from the national union committee.

I returned in cream chinos but with the same sandals. I was now told that the reason for the non-acceptance was the same (exact words) reply from the HR people as 5 years ago. What chance that!

Meanwhile the union are building a big distrimination case and I spoke to my national welfare officer (employer-side) who promised a very supportive email.

All in all, despite today, I feel it has caused a necessary chain reaction. The expected outcome tomorrow is that they will acknowledge my (and other males) rights' to don non bifuctared dress.

[Departed Member]

Best of luck! Hope you can set a precedent. At least you have a union that is on the workers side! (Unlike the TSSA - management lackeys to the bitter end!).