What women really think

[jamie001]

Hi CR,

It seems that your experience is quite different from the experience that Barley had over the moms.net. I really believe that you are throwing-in the towel too quickly and should do some rethinking. When women fought the battle to wear pants, they stayed with it until they won, but they also had support from other women. We would have had the kind of support that we needed if we didn't have Daddy Don and his cronies pushing us back to the 1950's. Maybe we just need to tough it out through this bad period in America because it will eventually come to an end. I really envy members here on the Cafe that live in civilized countries without dictators attempting to control social norms.

[crfriend]

It seems that your experience is quite different from the experience that Barley had over the moms.net. I really believe that you are throwing-in the towel too quickly and should do some rethinking. When women fought the battle to wear pants, they stayed with it until they won, but they also had support from other women.

There's a small set of details you're overlooking here, not the least of which is geographic location and the culture that's in place there. Barleymower is a third of a planet away from me on the other side of roughly 3,000 miles of ocean. He lives in a first-world country (admittedly one that has had some problems) That he lives in a country that prides itself in its civility also works in his favour. The land I live in is almost a diametrical opposite of those, save that they happen to be located on the same spheroid (and lots of folks here believe the world is flat). The gulf is enormous.

Of note is that I do not have so much as a single supporter for my "alternate style". Not one. They're all anti- now.

As far as things "getting better", I fear I will not see any measurable movement in that regard during my lifetime. As far as I can tell, the game is up and it's time to cash in the chips. Civility, decorum, and decency have (like Elvis) "left the building" and aren't likely to come back. The hill that would need climbing to restore things is simply too high, and the level of involvement (and interest) too low for anything meaningful to happen. All I see is further decline and bloodshed (there are folks here who actually celebrate the random violence that's consuming the country).

"Little Donny" is likely not a temporary apparition; there are more just like him waiting in the wings, many young enough to know better (save that they've never been exposed to anything better unless they've travelled overseas). So we rot away, confined in our little drab coffins. I just hope the remainder of humanity doesn't get dragged down when the USA finally collapses into internal wars.

[Freedomforall]

Yeah we are definitely burning over here. This is about as bassackwards as I have seen people get. Bigotry and racism are rampant. I almost forgot how popular freedom of speech is right now! That is until you say something that someone else does not like. Then you are expected to have a nice cup of shut the fook up! Bless my heart.

[STEVIE]

It's all a very, very sad state of affairs. I hope it's confined to my unfortunate and undeveloped part of the world.

This has now gone way beyond Barleymower's original idea and maybe a good time to put a lid on it.
All I can say is that the Europeans among us don't realise just how lucky we are.
In my professional capacity over the past few months I have seen several Americans who have clearly come to the UK to escape the issues that Carl describes.
In all respects they are no different from the refugees who arrive from countries with a considerably less "civilised" reputation.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Unfortunately, this veered from my earlier post which was dead on target, which touched on the social climate where my women-friends who were at one point supportive but have "changed their tune" in terms of my attire. Such is the power of a social climate -- that was the real crux of the comment and the potential for external pressures to mould peoples' opinions. There has been an observed sea change in women's attitudes -- and here, it has not been positive.

[Barleymower]

What do women really think of men in skirts?

If my circle of acquaintances is any sample (and it's a couple dozen individuals) they want us back in Beau Brummel's little drab coffin.

Why do I think this? It's based on commentary I've had over the years having to do with my apparel. It used to be that most were intrigued by the notion, but as that became routine never commented at all. Recently, because of the uptick in hate-speech and the fact that MIS never properly disambiguated themselves from the trans-* crowd (I've commented on this in the past), I've recently adopted the protective-colouration of "male drab" (zebra-like) so I'll stand less of a chance of getting shot on some random street by some random hater (who would have gotten the wrong target). Recently, my circle of women-friends have been positively effusive about how "good" I look, even though I'm effectively in camouflage. That amounts to "Positive reinforcement for a negative action". I am NOT encouraged, not one bit.

So, I guess we DO belong in our drab little coffins; or at least our "sisters" seem to think so. Thus, the haters win.

It's all a very, very sad state of affairs. I hope it's confined to my unfortunate and undeveloped part of the world.

There's a small set of details you're overlooking here, not the least of which is geographic location and the culture that's in place there. Barleymower is a third of a planet away from me on the other side of roughly 3,000 miles of ocean. He lives in a first-world country (admittedly one that has had some problems) That he lives in a country that prides itself in its civility also works in his favour. The land I live in is almost a diametrical opposite of those, save that they happen to be located on the same spheroid (and lots of folks here believe the world is flat). The gulf is enormous.

Of note is that I do not have so much as a single supporter for my "alternate style". Not one. They're all anti- now.

As far as things "getting better", I fear I will not see any measurable movement in that regard during my lifetime. As far as I can tell, the game is up and it's time to cash in the chips. Civility, decorum, and decency have (like Elvis) "left the building" and aren't likely to come back. The hill that would need climbing to restore things is simply too high, and the level of involvement (and interest) too low for anything meaningful to happen. All I see is further decline and bloodshed (there are folks here who actually celebrate the random violence that's consuming the country).

"Little Donny" is likely not a temporary apparition; there are more just like him waiting in the wings, many young enough to know better (save that they've never been exposed to anything better unless they've travelled overseas). So we rot away, confined in our little drab coffins. I just hope the remainder of humanity doesn't get dragged down when the USA finally collapses into internal wars.

As much as they would like they cannot "put the Genie back in the bottle". You are reacting (understandably) to the daily pressure to conform. Fear is the only weapon they have.
There's no going back in life, if we try to recreate the past we only succeed in creating a ugly version of it. We have to make something new. That's why what we are seeing won't last.

[Susie]

Thank you for your assistance.

Those talking about comfort in women's clothes appear to have forgotten about heels,corsets, crinolines, wigs, bras, thongs etc,etc

[crfriend]

As much as they would like they cannot "put the Genie back in the bottle". You are reacting (understandably) to the daily pressure to conform. Fear is the only weapon they have.

That doesn't go very far to explain the sea-change on the part of the various women in my life. Why are they kowtowing to this nonsense? What tripped the change from positive to negative where they attempt to "reward" me when I dress in drab? They have nothing to fear; that's something I get to worry about.

There's no going back in life, if we try to recreate the past we only succeed in creating a ugly version of it. We have to make something new. That's why what we are seeing won't last.

That's the view of wisdom -- of those who have seen all of these shenanigans before. However, the ones stirring this toxic pot are either too young or too ignorant (or downright stupid) to see the ultimate fallacy of their views. So they "double down" and start intimidating or, worse, shooting people. It's a Hell of a mix and I wish I could get out.

[mr seamstress]

What people post does not match their actions. Mumsnet is a bit of sesspool and posters will post what they think will be accepted by the group. Nobody wants a public dressing down.

I can agree with you on Mumsnet is a bit of cesspool. Ever look up about Mun's son want to wear a dress and ask others how to deal with it, while admitting they told their son he can wear anything? There where more negative comments allowing their son wearing a dress to school and advise to tell lies why he can't wear a dress to school. Mumsnet is filled with Mums with forked tongue.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... -to-school

As I keep posting on here, not all women mean what they say. I have a lot of women say men can wear anything while cursing about drag shows.

[Barleymower]

What people post does not match their actions. Mumsnet is a bit of sesspool and posters will post what they think will be accepted by the group. Nobody wants a public dressing down.

I can agree with you on Mumsnet is a bit of cesspool. Ever look up about Mun's son want to wear a dress and ask others how to deal with it, while admitting they told their son he can wear anything? There where more negative comments allowing their son wearing a dress to school and advise to tell lies why he can't wear a dress to school. Mumsnet is filled with Mums with forked tongue.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... -to-school

As I keep posting on here, not all women mean what they say. I have a lot of women say men can wear anything while cursing about drag shows.

It takes a lot of unpicking MrS and if you unpick it, you will come up with a long list of why people (and I dont just mean women) act as they do. If you take right back to basic human needs it makes a bit more sense.
If I were to argue the point even here there would be a lot of disagreement or I would just be ignored.

[Damon]

I live in Little Donny's 51st State (Canada for those across the pond).
CR FRIEND stated.

Recently, because of the uptick in hate-speech and the fact that MIS never properly disambiguated themselves from the trans-* crowd (I've commented on this in the past), I've recently adopted the protective-colouration of "male drab" (zebra-like) so I'll stand less of a chance of getting shot on some random street by some random hater (who would have gotten the wrong target).

I think that's one reason I wear something that people will see as being a kilt, except possibly a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Kilt Police, "He's a lumberjack and he's okay."

I have sensed trouble brewing from even before Donny climbed out of his political grave and zombied back into power.

Because MIS have completely failed to differentiate between us and the Transgender and Transvestite crowd. It was hard not to feel angry about men being allowed to compete in women's sports because they had put on a skirt.

We had, and I believe still have, a swimming team of 12 to 14 year old girls which permits, or permitted a 42 year old man to join the team merely because he identified as a 13 year old girl. And, despite his being offered his own changing room he was, is, allowed to parade up and down the girl's changing room with his genitalia hanging out, because to separate him from the other girls on the team would be discrimination. That sort of thing is at the root of the growing public anger.

It's unfortunate, but how can people be expected to tell the difference between a MIS in a dress and a Transgender or a Transvestite? A beard probably helps, but people are still likely to wonder why the dress? Are you on your way to share a changing room with 12 year old girls?

This is all part of the Uber Woke madness which has got out of all proportion in the last few years.

I have always been pretty woke myself, long in favor of no racial prejudice, of gay rights, of women's rights, of banning corporal punishment in schools and doing away with the death penalty, long before those ideas became mainstream. But a naked man in a schoolgirls changing room is not woke. It is pandering to perversion. And it is supporting the rights of a 42 year old man with dubious motives over the rights to privacy of young girls going through puberty.

Unfortunately, people can't tell the difference between him in his skirt and one of us, many of whom dress even more effeminately than he does.

[STEVIE]

Because MIS have completely failed to differentiate between us and the Transgender and Transvestite crowd. It was hard not to feel angry about men being allowed to compete in women's sports because they had put on a skirt.
We had, and I believe still have, a swimming team of 12 to 14 year old girls which permits, or permitted a 42 year old man to join the team merely because he identified as a 13 year old girl. And, despite his being offered his own changing room he was, is, allowed to parade up and down the girl's changing room with his genitalia hanging out, because to separate him from the other girls on the team would be discrimination. That sort of thing is at the root of the growing public anger.

Damon,
I'd like to see some corroborative evidence for your 42 year old male aka 13 year old female swimmer.
Smacks more of the sort of absurdity that little Donny and his merry band would dream up to demonise anyone who presents as anything other than a rootin tootin all time apple pie American male.
Peddling this sort of propaganda is more likely to provoke public anger than simply adhering to the truth in the news.
As for sport in general, it's a gross simplification to state that all a male has to do to compete against woman is change clothes.
Finally, you overestimate the influence of the MIS movement, it is way too small for it's achievements or failures to have much affect on anything.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Stevie, Thanks for the rebuttal to Damon. It needed saying, and I've been in a bit over my head with idiocy at work. Extraordinary claims it is said always require corresponding proof, although this is altogether too frequently lost in the moment.

I was just happy to have gotten through the day and managed to get in one decent meal.

I'll take some of the blame for the linkage to MIS as I posited that problem years ago (and, as usual, was ignored) but didn't worry much about it for some time until it surfaced again with Charlie Kirk.

[Damon]

Stevie asked for some kind of corroboration. Here you go. One of many videos. I got the age wrong. The man is 50.

https://youtu.be/2LC0DymxEUE?si=L8iuGP54XUrhZZ4B

Okay that's right wing media. But they aren't making the story up. And it is this sort of thing that is responsible for the backlash that is now occurring against genuine dysphoric transgender people, with the leftists conflating and exploiting their very real medical condition to push other causes.

The two transgender people I know well enough to have as friends and visitors to my house are very worried, as I am, that it will not end well for them. Trump came to power and the Right is in the ascendency not because of gays or genuine trans people, most of whom want to be quietly accepted and many of whom have sensible views similar to the majority about the welfare of children, etc..

On friday evening in the summer at the dog park people get together to have a beer or two, provided by a gay couple. I asked one time if they were going to the Pride Parade. "No. Used to but it has been taken over by perverts."

You must see it is wrong to force young girls who just want to swim to share a changing room with a middle aged man. Unless you believe that sort of thing is okay, I think you should consider apologizing for misrepresenting me.

[crfriend]

Well, let's not start a fight over this one. 50 or 42 doesn't make a whit of difference, something smacks me as "out of place" in that scenario, and I'd bring in the the mental heath folks to run an analysis on the guy in question.

The operative thought should be here, "Would I behave in this manner in a public setting?" or, "Would an otherwise sane person behave so in a public setting?", and if the answer comes up as a "No" then ask the needed questions of the needed parties.

Like most else, it's not rocket-science.