What women really think

[jamie001]

Hi CR,

It seems that your experience is quite different from the experience that Barley had over the moms.net. I really believe that you are throwing-in the towel too quickly and should do some rethinking. When women fought the battle to wear pants, they stayed with it until they won, but they also had support from other women. We would have had the kind of support that we needed if we didn't have Daddy Don and his cronies pushing us back to the 1950's. Maybe we just need to tough it out through this bad period in America because it will eventually come to an end. I really envy members here on the Cafe that live in civilized countries without dictators attempting to control social norms.

[crfriend]

It seems that your experience is quite different from the experience that Barley had over the moms.net. I really believe that you are throwing-in the towel too quickly and should do some rethinking. When women fought the battle to wear pants, they stayed with it until they won, but they also had support from other women.

There's a small set of details you're overlooking here, not the least of which is geographic location and the culture that's in place there. Barleymower is a third of a planet away from me on the other side of roughly 3,000 miles of ocean. He lives in a first-world country (admittedly one that has had some problems) That he lives in a country that prides itself in its civility also works in his favour. The land I live in is almost a diametrical opposite of those, save that they happen to be located on the same spheroid (and lots of folks here believe the world is flat). The gulf is enormous.

Of note is that I do not have so much as a single supporter for my "alternate style". Not one. They're all anti- now.

As far as things "getting better", I fear I will not see any measurable movement in that regard during my lifetime. As far as I can tell, the game is up and it's time to cash in the chips. Civility, decorum, and decency have (like Elvis) "left the building" and aren't likely to come back. The hill that would need climbing to restore things is simply too high, and the level of involvement (and interest) too low for anything meaningful to happen. All I see is further decline and bloodshed (there are folks here who actually celebrate the random violence that's consuming the country).

"Little Donny" is likely not a temporary apparition; there are more just like him waiting in the wings, many young enough to know better (save that they've never been exposed to anything better unless they've travelled overseas). So we rot away, confined in our little drab coffins. I just hope the remainder of humanity doesn't get dragged down when the USA finally collapses into internal wars.

[Freedomforall]

Yeah we are definitely burning over here. This is about as bassackwards as I have seen people get. Bigotry and racism are rampant. I almost forgot how popular freedom of speech is right now! That is until you say something that someone else does not like. Then you are expected to have a nice cup of shut the fook up! Bless my heart.

[STEVIE]

It's all a very, very sad state of affairs. I hope it's confined to my unfortunate and undeveloped part of the world.

This has now gone way beyond Barleymower's original idea and maybe a good time to put a lid on it.
All I can say is that the Europeans among us don't realise just how lucky we are.
In my professional capacity over the past few months I have seen several Americans who have clearly come to the UK to escape the issues that Carl describes.
In all respects they are no different from the refugees who arrive from countries with a considerably less "civilised" reputation.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Unfortunately, this veered from my earlier post which was dead on target, which touched on the social climate where my women-friends who were at one point supportive but have "changed their tune" in terms of my attire. Such is the power of a social climate -- that was the real crux of the comment and the potential for external pressures to mould peoples' opinions. There has been an observed sea change in women's attitudes -- and here, it has not been positive.

[Barleymower]

What do women really think of men in skirts?

If my circle of acquaintances is any sample (and it's a couple dozen individuals) they want us back in Beau Brummel's little drab coffin.

Why do I think this? It's based on commentary I've had over the years having to do with my apparel. It used to be that most were intrigued by the notion, but as that became routine never commented at all. Recently, because of the uptick in hate-speech and the fact that MIS never properly disambiguated themselves from the trans-* crowd (I've commented on this in the past), I've recently adopted the protective-colouration of "male drab" (zebra-like) so I'll stand less of a chance of getting shot on some random street by some random hater (who would have gotten the wrong target). Recently, my circle of women-friends have been positively effusive about how "good" I look, even though I'm effectively in camouflage. That amounts to "Positive reinforcement for a negative action". I am NOT encouraged, not one bit.

So, I guess we DO belong in our drab little coffins; or at least our "sisters" seem to think so. Thus, the haters win.

It's all a very, very sad state of affairs. I hope it's confined to my unfortunate and undeveloped part of the world.

There's a small set of details you're overlooking here, not the least of which is geographic location and the culture that's in place there. Barleymower is a third of a planet away from me on the other side of roughly 3,000 miles of ocean. He lives in a first-world country (admittedly one that has had some problems) That he lives in a country that prides itself in its civility also works in his favour. The land I live in is almost a diametrical opposite of those, save that they happen to be located on the same spheroid (and lots of folks here believe the world is flat). The gulf is enormous.

Of note is that I do not have so much as a single supporter for my "alternate style". Not one. They're all anti- now.

As far as things "getting better", I fear I will not see any measurable movement in that regard during my lifetime. As far as I can tell, the game is up and it's time to cash in the chips. Civility, decorum, and decency have (like Elvis) "left the building" and aren't likely to come back. The hill that would need climbing to restore things is simply too high, and the level of involvement (and interest) too low for anything meaningful to happen. All I see is further decline and bloodshed (there are folks here who actually celebrate the random violence that's consuming the country).

"Little Donny" is likely not a temporary apparition; there are more just like him waiting in the wings, many young enough to know better (save that they've never been exposed to anything better unless they've travelled overseas). So we rot away, confined in our little drab coffins. I just hope the remainder of humanity doesn't get dragged down when the USA finally collapses into internal wars.

As much as they would like they cannot "put the Genie back in the bottle". You are reacting (understandably) to the daily pressure to conform. Fear is the only weapon they have.
There's no going back in life, if we try to recreate the past we only succeed in creating a ugly version of it. We have to make something new. That's why what we are seeing won't last.

[Susie]

Thank you for your assistance.

Those talking about comfort in women's clothes appear to have forgotten about heels,corsets, crinolines, wigs, bras, thongs etc,etc

[crfriend]

As much as they would like they cannot "put the Genie back in the bottle". You are reacting (understandably) to the daily pressure to conform. Fear is the only weapon they have.

That doesn't go very far to explain the sea-change on the part of the various women in my life. Why are they kowtowing to this nonsense? What tripped the change from positive to negative where they attempt to "reward" me when I dress in drab? They have nothing to fear; that's something I get to worry about.

There's no going back in life, if we try to recreate the past we only succeed in creating a ugly version of it. We have to make something new. That's why what we are seeing won't last.

That's the view of wisdom -- of those who have seen all of these shenanigans before. However, the ones stirring this toxic pot are either too young or too ignorant (or downright stupid) to see the ultimate fallacy of their views. So they "double down" and start intimidating or, worse, shooting people. It's a Hell of a mix and I wish I could get out.