Are we engaging in fashion freedom?

[Grok]

I would have to say that I'm not sure what practicing fashion freedom means if it's not wearing what one wishes with little or no regard for fashion norms. If you do that, then you are practicing fashion freedom. Having the courage to do so publicly also advocates for the same.

Wearing skirted rigs is certainly practicing fashion freedom-this is opposed to not only fashion norms, but to a very long standing, deeply ingrained Taboo.

[Stu]

Nobody is going to stop men from wearing whatever they want. Not in this country.

True they won't stop you, but they will (a) make it harder for you by not offering men's skirts in mainstream stores; and (b) put you at risk of ridicule, either as an eccentric or as someone aping women by appropriating their clothes.

[Barleymower]

True they won't stop you, but they will (a) make it harder for you by not offering men's skirts in mainstream stores; and (b) put you at risk of ridicule, either as an eccentric or as someone aping women by appropriating their clothes.

So not a men's rights issue. Perhaps more accurate to say Peer Pressure.

It's everywhere, the subtle or not so subtle dismantling of men. It's far more effective than any rule or rights issue. There is nothing to fight and you only bring yourself down if you try.

Question is why does society feel it so necessary to keep men in these narrow confines?

[crfriend]

It's everywhere, the subtle or not so subtle dismantling of men. It's far more effective than any rule or rights issue. There is nothing to fight and you only bring yourself down if you try.

Thus it's a men's rights issue.

Question is why does society feel it so necessary to keep men in these narrow confines?

Thus it's a men's rights issue.

None of this idiocy happens to women. Women don't get slandered and libelled (e.g. put on the SD Spectrum) for daring to look like ersatz men.

First and foremost, men need to understand that the self-policing is hurtful and harms other men. Secondly, and not very far behind, is that men -- as a group -- need to tell the Matriarchy to "Shove it!", that we're not going to put up with the BS any longer, and that we're willing to go to some lengths to stop the BS. Up to, and including, a refusal to breed with women who push the old line.

[JeffB1959]

Well, speaking just for myself, yes, I'm indulging in fashion freedom in that I wear what I want, when I want. Nothing more complicated than that.

[jamie001]

I It would be great if more men embraced the idea of dressing outside of the box, but if they don't, I'm perfectly fine being one of the odd men out. That has been my life, and I don't really expect that to change.

Men will never dress out of the box because they are afraid of being incorrectly perceived by society as a gay homosexual which is unfortunately a stereotype that is perpetuated by Hollywood.

1. Boys are taught at an early age that anything even remotely feminine is the mark of a gay homosexual.

2 The worst thing that you can possibly be is a gay homosexual that doesn’t live up to the Man-Box standard of masculinity. You are lower than whale sh1t on the bottom of the sea.

3. As a boy you will get the sh1t beat out of you on the playground for being feminine while the teachers look the other way.

This is what we need to overcome. How can we stop this tribal pass-down from generation to generation?

Women won the fashion freedom battle because they wore what they wanted to wear without regard for what other people thing, Also those women were labeled as “lesbians” but no one beat the sh1t out of them for wearing what they want to wear. Because of #1 and #2 above most men do not have the mental fortitude to pull it off!

[jamie001]

If Republican proposal 2025 gets enacted, LGBTQ+ and Gender Non-Conforming people will loose rights regarding employment and housing. Companies will be able to fire you for wearing a presentation that does not correspond to the stereotype for your birth sex. They want to declare crossdressing as a perversion and make it illegal. We could be headed for extinction.

[crfriend]

Men will never dress out of the box because they are afraid of being incorrectly perceived by society as a gay homosexual which is unfortunately a stereotype that is perpetuated by Hollywood.

"Gay homosexual"? Man, that's right out the Department of redundancy department! In what passes for the modern language you're repeating yourself because "gay" == "homosexual". Full stop.

Because of #1 and #2 above most men do not have the mental fortitude to pull it off!

I don't think it's a lack of mental fortitude, I think it's merely a matter of, "Meh. Not worth getting worked up over." Vastly more a question of laziness and acquiescence than anything else.

[Modoc]

I don't think it's a lack of mental fortitude, I think it's merely a matter of, "Meh. Not worth getting worked up over." Vastly more a question of laziness and acquiescence than anything else.

I agree and would add that, for the most part, I think that we in the clothing freedom club are too hard on men in general. In an age and time when most women don't wear skirts and dresses frequently, why should we expect that a significant number of men would want to? Women, Western women anyway, have pretty much acquired the freedom to wear whatever they want. To say that there are no restrictions on them is foolish at best and somewhat dishonest. Their choices are judged by the wearer's age, size, shape, and what have you. My partner is more apprehensive about going out without makeup or wearing something that she thinks others might judge as "too young" for her than I ever was about wearing skirts in public.
As far as being thought of as gay, and that's a real thing for sure, I find it a bit amusing that while I know a lot of gay men, not one of them wears skirts or dresses. Go figure.
Are we engaging in fashion freedom? Of course, we are. Our fellow men are as well, they are free to follow the crowd and wear what makes them comfortable because unquestioning conformity is one of the most comfortable things there is. My only ask is that I can dress as I want with impunity.

[Barleymower]

Thus it's a men's rights issue.

I see your point but there's another way worth considering. Rather than fighting for the right to wear a skirt, assume (correctly).you already have that right.
Here is an example of men in India fighting for women to have greater rights and not be treated as property.

https://youtu.be/ZYkyY2wpAbc?feature=shared

At 1.10mins a man says "wearing a skirt is my choice, nobody hauls me up for my choices but women held accountable for the clothes they wear".

At 2.25 mins the journalsist says to a man "were you embarrassed to come to the Park in a skirt? Not at all he says. When women started wearing so called men's clothes, were they embarrassed? No they were proud to do it. We are also proud to do it"

[LiuBang]

I think that we should continue promoting skirts as an option for straight men. As in encouraging other straight men to wear it. As in telling other straight men how much more comfortable skirts are than shorts or even sweatpants. As in saying "I'm a straight guy, I just love how comfy skirts are" whenever asks "what's your prounouns."

Posters who say "in America, men can wear skirts if they so choose, they simply have no interest to, let them be" are missing the point. The freedom to wear skirts isn't simply about lifting legally enforceable workplace dress codes. Freedom is also about eliminating the stigma. Freedom is also about being able to wear a skirt without your sexuality/gender identity questioned, or being labeled a perv.

Some posters say "Men in skirts is not normalized, because most men don't wear skirts because most men simply prefer pants." Nonsense. Even if it's true that most men don't want to wear skirts, it's probably equally true that most women don't want to wear skirts (given most women wear pants nowadays.) However, it is completely false to say "Women in skirts are not normalized."

[Uncle Al]

I think that we should continue promoting skirts as an option for straight men. As in encouraging other straight men to wear it. As in telling other straight men how much more comfortable skirts are than shorts or even sweatpants. As in saying "I'm a straight guy, I just love how comfy skirts are" whenever asks "what's your prounouns."

Sorry but I disagree with your comments.
I promote the comfort of skirts for ALL MEN - period
Their sexual orientation is not part of the equation - it doesn't matter

And don't bring up 'cis-gendered' anything. That is another way of putting people into a 'box'.
ALL people have attributes to bring to the table. Let's be happy for these people and stop
labeling them and putting them into a 'box' to fit our motives.

Uncle Al

[jamie001]

Uncle Al's comments regarding labeling people are 100 percent right on! We need to stop labeling people and putting them in boxes. There are many different types of men that wear skirts and we need to be supportive to all of them whether straight, gay, trans, gender non-conforming, or whatever we all share the same interest and passion.

[LiuBang]

Uncle Al's comments regarding labeling people are 100 percent right on! We need to stop labeling people and putting them in boxes. There are many different types of men that wear skirts and we need to be supportive to all of them whether straight, gay, trans, gender non-conforming, or whatever we all share the same interest and passion.

I would agree LGBTQ people have the right to dress as what they want. BUT in urban America, as long as a man identifies as a woman, he has no problem wearing whatever he wants. In the urban West, the queer already have a ton of freedom in how to dress. Same goes for straight women.

It's cis-hetero men for whom there is massive, massive stigma and backlash if they dare put on a skirt, even in urban America. It's cis-hetero men's freedom to wear skirts that has made zero progress for decades.

[crfriend]

It's cis-hetero men for whom there is massive, massive stigma and backlash if they dare put on a skirt, even in urban America. It's cis-hetero men's freedom to wear skirts that has made zero progress for decades.

Indeed, and that's down to the shrillness and ever-presence in-your-face of the LGBTQWTF crowd. It should not be this way, simply by the numbers.