[rad-fem hate-speech redacted] out of style thanks to men in skirts

[Uncle Al]

We can all agree to disagree but, many have stated the correct information.
Men, at a very - very young age, are encouraged to act out aggression, that
they must not show any form of 'weakness'(feelings, compassion, kindness).
They are taught that 'men don't do those things, those are for girls'.
Young boys are not allowed to play with any toys that looks like a 'girl toy'.
Young boys are encouraged to work with their hands, stay out of the kitchen.
(Many world renowned chef's are men.)

When I was around 5 to 6 years old, I wanted to play the piano. My parents
made arrangements for lessons. Many times, the other kids in the area came
to see if I could come out and play ball with them. I was practicing the piano,
but could come out after practice time. Soon they stopped asking me to play
ball or any other sports because I had to practice the piano, like a girl.

Today, I'm very glad that I 'practiced the piano' as I took up playing a grander
instrument, the organ. I have played organ for several churches, then I found
out about the Theatre Pipe Organ. It is such a wonderful and powerful instrument.

Anyway, this all boils down to what children are taught by their parents and peers.
In the animal kingdom, aggression is in the genes of male animals, more so than
female animals. Yes, female animals become aggressive when protecting their young.
Many of these ' animalistic traits' are in the human species too but, humans are able
to channel or control these 'animalistic traits'.

I have yet to find, see or hear about, anything that will change the natural instincts
inherent in all species, animal or human. But as humans, we must be better guides
to our children. We need to teach our children that compassion, fear, love are to be
expressed by ALL children, not boys only or girls only, ALL children.

Uncle Al

[Barleymower]

We can all agree to disagree but, many have stated the correct information.
Men, at a very - very young age, are encouraged to act out aggression, that
they must not show any form of 'weakness'(feelings, compassion, kindness).
They are taught that 'men don't do those things, those are for girls'.
Young boys are not allowed to play with any toys that looks like a 'girl toy'.
Young boys are encouraged to work with their hands, stay out of the kitchen.
(Many world renowned chef's are men.)

When I was around 5 to 6 years old, I wanted to play the piano. My parents
made arrangements for lessons. Many times, the other kids in the area came
to see if I could come out and play ball with them. I was practicing the piano,
but could come out after practice time. Soon they stopped asking me to play
ball or any other sports because I had to practice the piano, like a girl.

Today, I'm very glad that I 'practiced the piano' as I took up playing a grander
instrument, the organ. I have played organ for several churches, then I found
out about the Theatre Pipe Organ. It is such a wonderful and powerful instrument.

Anyway, this all boils down to what children are taught by their parents and peers.
In the animal kingdom, aggression is in the genes of male animals, more so than
female animals. Yes, female animals become aggressive when protecting their young.
Many of these ' animalistic traits' are in the human species too but, humans are able
to channel or control these 'animalistic traits'.

I have yet to find, see or hear about, anything that will change the natural instincts
inherent in all species, animal or human. But as humans, we must be better guides
to our children. We need to teach our children that compassion, fear, love are to be
expressed by ALL children, not boys only or girls only, ALL children.

Uncle Al

All true AL but for some reason a important aspect of human existence is largely ignored or at least not recognised. Yet it is massively important and shapes the world around us.
It is how females interact around each other, how they learn from each other, how they subtlety control each other and control men without them barely noticing. Behind every good man etc.

[Fear i Sciorta Dubh]

It is interesting to note that my comment about men committing 90 percent of violent crimes was completely ignored by everyone responding to this thread. Why? Because to acknowledge this statistical fact is akin to acknowledging that masculinity is inferior.

Where is your source for this "fact"? I hate to be the guy that says "show us your sources" but for this I ask: where do you get this number from? Additionally, how is this percentage related to the population as a whole? If 90% of MEN were violent, I'd accept your premise... but if that 90% number is only 1% of men... then it's not a problem with men or masculinity, but with how people are brought up and raised, cultural expectations, but not their nature. I don't think anyone responded because it's a silly assertion to make without backing it up with facts.

3. Admit that masculinity is inferior after accepting assertions 1 and 2 above. It is almost impossible for most males to do this step, whereas most women when presented with these concepts wholeheartedly agree.

Well of course they would agree with bashing men! You aren't attacking women's inbuilt nature! Try to tell them there are issues with femininity, and they will have the same reaction as men and will refuse to accept femininity as inferior.

I agree with crfriend - bottling up of emotions, treating men like dirt are a major reason why we see such violent outbursts from men.

Brilliant response Coder to what was in my view some rather unusual opinions

[ScotL]

Please don't hit me with a dead chicken! I don't want chicken blood on my new skirt!

It is interesting to note that my comment about men committing 90 percent of violent crimes was completely ignored by everyone responding to this thread. Why? Because to acknowledge this statistical fact is akin to acknowledging that masculinity is inferior. That is why are society needs to move toward feminization of boys at an early age. Because of this socialization, females are much better equipped to deal with their emotions and realize that violence is an unacceptable solution. Boys are socialized with to believe that aggression and violence are ok. The whole "boys will be boys" mindset that parents mention and chuckle when little Johnny has little Joey on the ground in a headlock.

If you don't agree with me that men are intrinsically violent because of their socialization and you believe that men are not the problem, then you are displaying typical masculine behavior and you don't even realize it! The steps to making progress are:

1. Acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of violent crime is committed by males whether with a gun, knife, strangulation, bashing in someone's head with a club, or beating someone to death. Do some research before commenting on this.

2. Acknowledge that male behavior in item #1 above is a result of male socialization that starts at a very early age.

3. Admit that masculinity is inferior after accepting assertions 1 and 2 above. It is almost impossible for most males to do this step, whereas most women when presented with these concepts wholeheartedly agree.

4. Acknowledge that masculinity is inferior and that femininity is superior. The only way to fix society is to devalue masculinity and promote feminine behavior starting at an early age. Boys should be rewarded for emulating feminine behavior.

Acknowledging that the majority of violent crimes are admitted by men does not mean the majority of men are violent. Me thinks you are confusing the statistics.

I have to agree with Coder. You make this case by stating conclusions like you are leading us along. Let’s have this debate. Show us the facts that masculinity or femininity are inferior or superior. Don’t just assert conclusions. Just repeating the conclusions you did before do not make them true.

[ScotL]

Scot,

I’ve tried to tread carefully around the gun debate. But when Al wades in with certain comments, it’s hard not to respond.

Why did I not add my comments to those of my contact? For the very reasons Al cited. I am not in a position to add weight to the comments because I’ve not been in the US for 5 years. The reference was timely (I met the guy yesterday) and relevant (a real example of [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]).

I’ll withdraw from this thread to aid the defusing of tensions.

I enjoy debate and discussion. When it’s rational. Arguing “I flew off the handle because he did it first” never worked for me as a child and is best left to children trying to get out of trouble. To defuse tensions, I go for apologizing if I hurt someone’s feelings, discussing the ideas and not judging another’s worth. You’re right though, sometimes you just have to stop the discussion if the other person is irrational and rants.

It’s free advice, so take it for what it is worth. I think passing along polarizing comments without adding your take is akin to believing the polarizing comments without having the courage to stand behind them. I just wouldn’t do it.

[rivegauche]

I have not checked through the history of this thread before this post, but I have followed it (I think in silence but can't swear to that). For the life of me I cannot see a connection between men wearing skirts and a reduction in [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]. If you wanted to post graphs, I am pretty sure you would see both increasing - that does not mean there is a relationship. You might argue that the likes of Putin and Bush and Blair are male warmongers. What about Thatcher? Mindless aggression is not exclusively male.

The huge following Andrew Tate has confirms the existence of widespread [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]. It is repugnant and harmful to women. I would not dispute the assertion that 90% of violent crime is committed by men - the figure might even be higher. None of this is evidence that all males are toxic, merely that [rad-fem hate-speech redacted] exists. If the majority of males respect women - and I would like to think we do - then all we need to do is follow the lead set by their parents - there is no need to introduce femininity to the situation. The moment you create a set-up that allows boys to conclude that treating other people with respect is girly you have already lost. There is NOTHING inherently feminine about mutual respect.

It is becoming very difficult now to have a civilised debate about gender. Anyone expressing an opinion however harmless that is remotely unwoke ends up receiving death threats. Meanwhile, any transwomen or man presenting as a woman is now regarded as a threat to female-only spaces in a way that is fairly new (at least in recent years). Hopefully men in skirts presenting as men do not get caught in the cross-fire. You could argue that women are already protected by laws that make assaults illegal, irrespective of where they happen. Unfortunately protection in law does not mean protected in reality. The conviction rate for violent or sexual assaults by men on women is disgracefully low - and these are just the cases that reach court. Police forces that are meant to be enforcing these laws are sometimes the source of the problems.

The reality is that society does not protect women from widespread violence from men. Many here might be afraid to walk down a street in a skirt in case one or more of these Neanderthals attacks you. You can go home and change into trousers. A woman cannot go home and change her gender (OK not literally true but you know what I mean). We still live in a society where a man who batters women is perceived as a real man and a man who wears a skirt is not. The public saw Sean Connery as the ultimate "real man", but he said on some chat show (Wogan?) that "sometimes a women needs a slap". Real men do not hit women, and any role model who does so should be cancelled (cancelling is now a real thing - I am merely suggesting that if you are to going cancel anyone, these are the people to cancel). Like it or not, all men have a duty to play a part in protecting women from toxic men and calling out any abusive behaviour. If anyone is persuaded that by being seen to wear skirts we are raising the status of women in society and thus giving the creeps less excuse, fine with me. As I say, I can't see the connection, but if others do - go for it - society is not a logical creature.

[ScotL]

We still live in a society where a man who batters women is perceived as a real man and a man who wears a skirt is not.

Excellent post, you make a lot of great points.

I single out this sentence and revisit the previous discussions on the addition of the word “masculinity” to the word “toxic.” Forgive me for forgetting who said it, but an excellent point was made that the combination of terms calls out all men. “[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]” puts men on the defensive because as men, masculinity is what describes our perception of ourself as a male. We don’t use terms like toxic homosexuality or toxic femininity because they feed prejudice and over generalization of a group based on the actions of a few bad apples. Masculinity is a loosely defined term to say the least. But masculinity in general is not the problem. It’s the toxic viewpoint of a subset of men whose attitudes towards women are extremely negative.

[rivegauche]

I had no intention of suggesting that all masculinity was toxic. I try to use language with precision (hence my previous difficulties with people who use the term "literally" metaphorically). If you use the term "[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]" you are distinguishing that from other types of masculinity. It is a recognisable phenomenon and it exists. The use of the two words together is as in "yellow taxi". Yellow taxis exist but no one takes that to mean that all taxis are yellow.

[crfriend]

I had no intention of suggesting that all masculinity was toxic. I try to use language with precision (hence my previous difficulties with people who use the term "literally" metaphorically). If you use the term "[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]" you are distinguishing that from other types of masculinity.

The problem with that is that "in the wild" it's used as a broad-brush to damn all men equally -- and that's why I detest it so highly.

Also, whilst there are plenty of laws specifically protecting women from men, there are virtually none to cover the reverse situation. Worse, those laws specifically for women are often used by women to commit crimes against men by proxy (using the police as a weapon), and I have first-hand experience with that scenario -- which carried to an extreme could have been considered an attempted murder when my late ex- tried to get me SWATted, and never even got a talking-to about perjury.

The overwhelming majority of men are decent, peaceable, civilised folk; if was the other way 'round the jails would be bursting at the seams full time. Tarring and feathering them as "toxic" is disingenuous at best and pernicious at worst.

[jamie001]

It is interesting to note that my comment about men committing 90 percent of violent crimes was completely ignored by everyone responding to this thread. Why? Because to acknowledge this statistical fact is akin to acknowledging that masculinity is inferior.

Where is your source for this "fact"? I hate to be the guy that says "show us your sources" but for this I ask: where do you get this number from? Additionally, how is this percentage related to the population as a whole? If 90% of MEN were violent, I'd accept your premise... but if that 90% number is only 1% of men... then it's not a problem with men or masculinity, but with how people are brought up and raised, cultural expectations, but not their nature. I don't think anyone responded because it's a silly assertion to make without backing it up with facts.

3. Admit that masculinity is inferior after accepting assertions 1 and 2 above. It is almost impossible for most males to do this step, whereas most women when presented with these concepts wholeheartedly agree.

Well of course they would agree with bashing men! You aren't attacking women's inbuilt nature! Try to tell them there are issues with femininity, and they will have the same reaction as men and will refuse to accept femininity as inferior.

I agree with crfriend - bottling up of emotions, treating men like dirt are a major reason why we see such violent outbursts from men.

Hi Coder,

Respectfully, You are not looking at this from a statistical perspective. Assume that only 1 percent of people are violent. They why are 90 percent of that 1 percent all men? 1 percent of all the United States population is approximately 3 million. Of that 3 million, why are 90 percent of that sample men? That is a pretty large sample to be flawed.When someone in the USA goes goofy with a gun and kills a lot of people, it is is ALWAYS a man! To deny this problem amounts to sticking you head in the sand. Even though you are not violent, you do not want to acknowledge that your tribe is inherently violent dues the improper socialization that has existed for generations.

[jamie001]

We can all agree to disagree but, many have stated the correct information.
Men, at a very - very young age, are encouraged to act out aggression, that
they must not show any form of 'weakness'(feelings, compassion, kindness).
They are taught that 'men don't do those things, those are for girls'.
Young boys are not allowed to play with any toys that looks like a 'girl toy'.
Young boys are encouraged to work with their hands, stay out of the kitchen.
(Many world renowned chef's are men.)

When I was around 5 to 6 years old, I wanted to play the piano. My parents
made arrangements for lessons. Many times, the other kids in the area came
to see if I could come out and play ball with them. I was practicing the piano,
but could come out after practice time. Soon they stopped asking me to play
ball or any other sports because I had to practice the piano, like a girl.

Today, I'm very glad that I 'practiced the piano' as I took up playing a grander
instrument, the organ. I have played organ for several churches, then I found
out about the Theatre Pipe Organ. It is such a wonderful and powerful instrument.

Anyway, this all boils down to what children are taught by their parents and peers.
In the animal kingdom, aggression is in the genes of male animals, more so than
female animals. Yes, female animals become aggressive when protecting their young.
Many of these ' animalistic traits' are in the human species too but, humans are able
to channel or control these 'animalistic traits'.

I have yet to find, see or hear about, anything that will change the natural instincts
inherent in all species, animal or human. But as humans, we must be better guides
to our children. We need to teach our children that compassion, fear, love are to be
expressed by ALL children, not boys only or girls only, ALL children.

Uncle Al

Great reply by Uncle Al! Note that if we socialized boys like we socialize girls, boys would not have made fun of Uncle Al for practicing the piano. Roughhousing and aggression in boys needs to be nipped in the bud at a very early age, or it will be here to stay. Instead of roughhousing, boys should be socialized to play a musical instrument, cook, wear girls clothing if they like, and value femininity.

[Stu]

Great reply by Uncle Al! Note that if we socialized boys like we socialize girls, boys would not have made fun of Uncle Al for practicing the piano. Roughhousing and aggression in boys needs to be nipped in the bud at a very early age, or it will be here to stay. Instead of roughhousing, boys should be socialized to play a musical instrument, cook, wear girls clothing if they like, and value femininity.

I disagree. I think boys should be free to behave like boys and that means some level of physical roughness and aggression is natural and even desirable.
Boys should be encouraged to value masculinity.

[STEVIE]

When someone in the USA goes goofy with a gun and kills a lot of people, it is is ALWAYS a man!

Oh No it isn't
https://allthatsinteresting.com/brenda-ann-spencer
Note also, she was 16, not an adult woman and killed 2, injured 8 at a school in Cleveland in 1979.
Her motive, "I don't like Mondays".
The majority of acts like this may be perpetrated by men but beware of making assumptions.
Equally do not presume that "feminised" men would be any less likely to behave in this manner.
Steve.

[Kirbstone]

Speaking of 'feminised men', this current whole business comes to the fore when a convicted rapist who since 'transitioned' and is now described as 'she' has collected another custodial conviction and has applied to enter a womens' prison. Rightly rejected and extremely inappropriate.

As with the international sporting body which recently ruled that men who went through male puberty but who subsequently 'transition' are not allowed compete against genetic women. Period, the ruling is entirely correct.

Tom

[Barleymower]

Speaking of 'feminised men', this current whole business comes to the fore when a convicted rapist who since 'transitioned' and is now described as 'she' has collected another custodial conviction and has applied to enter a womens' prison. Rightly rejected and extremely inappropriate.

As with the international sporting body which recently ruled that men who went through male puberty but who subsequently 'transition' are not allowed compete against genetic women. Period, the ruling is entirely correct.

Tom

Does it not strike anybody as odd that this rapist as popped up transitioning into being a woman just as the legislation is going through effectively wrecking it? It's irrelevant what your position is at this point, pro or anti trans legislation. The legislation has been derailed by a trans woman, male rapist right on que.

As for [rad-fem hate-speech redacted], There is no such thing as [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]! Why? Because men are not toxic! The media can take examples of bad men and label menkind as toxic. Women are just as toxic. I wrote in an earlier post of where a good man was destroyed by a woman, it happens all the time. Women are just as bad as men, just as toxic. There are millions of men out there having their lives destroyed, everything taken away and still they work to care for their kids, fighting for the right just to see them. The plight of these men is being swept aside because one man is acting in a disgusting manner. Another man the infamous Andrew Tate is feeding the hatred and they are lapping it up.
All of us on this forum wear skirts for different reasons. Some so they can watch the cricket in comfort, some for the right of men to dress as they decide, some gay, trans whatever. You name it it's probably here somewhere. Frankly I support any mans right to dress as he chooses, its his business. I get so angry because I'm a father. A father with kids, kids with gender questions. I don't have all the answers for them. One thing I can do without is men being constantly being torn down and vilified by a society that no longer values us.