[rad-fem hate-speech redacted] out of style thanks to men in skirts

[Uncle Al]

I'm sorry Ray but, YOU are the ignorant person.

Basing your view on a microscopic experience that a whole country is bad,
racist, etc., is totally wrong. 99.99999% of the U.S. population is opposite
of what this 'kid' experienced. Yes, the Southern States are a bit more
'backwards' from the rest of America but, still they are good, kind, hard
working people. Too use an expression, they are 'The Salt Of The Earth'.

You wrote that firearms are a perversion, are dangerous. We all live with
'dangerous' things on a daily basis. The car you drive, the aircraft you
travel in, the train you ride on, farming equipment, are all 'dangerous'
things yet, they are taken for granted as useful tools which makes
our lives better.

When a country bans firearms for the general public, that country
becomes a dictatorship. A perfect example is Venezuela, which once
was a prosperous country. It is now an impoverished, 3rd world country.

To get a better understanding of America, come for 30 days and visit
many areas of America. You'll find a better understanding of our country
and the people who live and work here.

Uncle Al

[ScotL]

Al - FFS, just calm down. Live your little perversion with weapons. Other countries manage just fine without firearms to defend their feeble insecurities.

Jamie - FFS, get real. A huge amount of cultures around the world exhibit near-impeccable behaviour of men. You don’t see Japanese red necks. You don’t see Tutsi tribes aggressively asserting their masculinity. You live in the USA - a culture which DOES have so much [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]. Don’t assume the rest of the world is like you. It’s not.

Case in point. I met a client today. His 30yo son was there. He lived in Louisiana for 5 years. His views?

1. Americans are racist. They have segregated communities. What?!

2. Americans have very thin skins. He was asked by a local in a bar, “what to you think of Trump?”. He was honest, and told the locsl lad that in his view, Trump was an idiot. What happens? The local says,” outside, now”. Just because the Brit says Trump’s an idiot, the guy takes offence. Lesson - if you don’t want candour in responses, don’t bloody ask the question. Stupid naked aggression. Not needed. You won’t get that in the U.K. or many other countries.

3. Americans are ignorant.

These are not my words. They came from a Brit who gave up living in the USA because he thought it wad screwed up. Jamie001 - try Europe before you get us all in nail polish and aprons. There are different expressions of masculinity round the world, and most are actually okay.

Harsh words I know - but I’m feeding back not just my views (top part of this post) but also a very recent expression of views from someone who lived long enough in the USA to frame his views with authority and experience.

Rant over

Wow. Just wow.

For someone who is telling others to “calm down” and “get real” arguing Americans are ignorant and thin skinned and racist, you sure showed yourself to be an “American” in your eyes.

I’ve been blessed to visit many different countries. Unfortunately, racism is everywhere. To say America is the only place these things exist, in my opinion is to admit you have the blinders on and need to bash America to make yourself feel better.

Do you remember the Japanese treatment of Chinese in World War II? Have yet to atone or own up to it.

In Rwanda, the Hutu majority lashed out at the minority Tutsis – killing thousands and forcing hundreds of thousands to flee to neighboring Uganda. In Burundi, the minority Tutsis maintained their control of the military and government through a campaign of violence against the Hutus. Direct quote.

If you’re gonna use examples, may want to use ones that don’t have such histories. But then again, name a nation where every citizen is a perfect. I hope you are able to do so but the reality is people being mean to each other is as human as it gets. And that sucks.

[Ray]

ScotL,

Good point abbot the Tutsis. I stand corrected. I used a bad example. Japan? You’re citing an example which is 80 years old. Yet my point remains. Being male doesn’t make you toxic or similar, as Jamie suggests.

I’m not seeking to bash the US. I’m responding to two very silly posts. I certainly don’t do it to make myself feel better, so let’s drop that one.

My comments on the US? They were not my comments. I was passing on the comments of a European who lived in the US for five years. He got out because he hated what he perceived as a dumbed down culture full of Tacobels (?) and MacDonalds. He was particularly scathing about racism. He also had real concerns about what he perceived as the fetishisation of guns, but I’ll say no more on that. This guy was intelligent and articulate. He would make the distinction between a dumb culture and dumb people - which is course is absolutely correct. They are not the same. Just look at NASA, Lockheed, Apple.

As I said, these are not my comments. I have passed them on.

(Edited for a typo)

[Ray]

Al,

Try to actually read my post next time.

I was passing on an observation from someone with five years’ experience in Louisiana. Five. Not 30 days. Not my view. Someone else’s. Is that clear?

As for the banning of firearms creating a dictatorship. That’s one of the silliest things I’ve read in a while. The U.K. has extensive bans on firearms. No dictatorship. See also New Zealand, most of Europe etc. No dictatorships. No link.

As for tools that make your life better, how exactly can a weapon do that? I’ve lived without a gun for over half a century and my life is pretty good, thanks. But I need access to trains, cars, etc. Dangerous? Well, trains kill thousands every year. Oh, hold on. They don’t. Aircraft too. Oh, they don’t either. Cars can be dangerous, I’ll give you that. Yet a car is pretty much (I.e not entirely) a necessity. A weapon is not. Ever. Well, not in my country.

Don’t equate guns to cars, trains etc. it’s just a silly argument that can easily be batted aside.

A car is a potentially dangerous thing that most people need. A gun is a potentially dangerous thing that most people DON’T.

A farming implement is a potentially dangerous thing that most farmers need. A gun is a potentially dangerous thing that most don’t (other than shotguns to keep vermin down - on their land only).

Don’t equate these things. They are totally different.

[Myopic Bookworm]

A gun is an important tool for hunters and trappers on the frontier. Unfortunately, many Americans have not noticed that they do not any longer live as hunters and trappers on the frontier, nor that an over-powered semi-automatic is not necessarily the best tool for shooting a turkey, never mind a burger.

Gun control is not the banning of guns: it is the regulation of guns. I expect there are Americans that think they already live in a "socialist" dictatorship because they are obliged by law to display a license plate on their cars.

I lived for two years in the US, and for the most part I had a great time and met nice people. But just as we were arranging to come back to the UK, some dickhead with a gun decided to stamp out crime in his local area by harassing a random teenager walking home from a convenience store, and then when he resisted, shooting him dead. After we got back here, three people died in a shooting incident in what had been our local shopping mall. Boy, was I glad to be back in western Europe.

[ScotL]

ScotL,

Good point abbot the Tutsis. I stand corrected. I used a bad example. Japan? You’re citing an example which is 80 years old. Yes my point remains. Being male doesn’t make you toxic or similar, as Jamie suggests.

I’m not seeking to bash the US. I’m responding to two very silly posts. I certainly don’t do it to make myself feel better, so let’s drop that one.

My comments on the US? They were not my comments. I was passing on the comments of a European who lived in the US for five years. He got out because he hated what he perceived as a dumbed down culture full of Tacobels (?) and MacDonalds. He was particularly scathing about racism. He also had real concerns about what he perceived as the fetishisation of guns, but I’ll say no more on that. This guy was intelligent and articulate. He would make the distinction between a dumb culture and dumb people - which is course is absolutely correct. They are not the same. Just look at NASA, Lockheed, Apple.

As I said, these are not my comments. I have passed them on.

Stating them as your comments or passing on someone else’s comments without stating your opinion of them are quite similar. I’d recommend not passing along polarizing comments without stating your opinion. Otherwise this feels like you want to say these things but are hiding behind the escape clause of “I’m just passing them along.”

Yes, Japanese atrocities that happened 80 years ago are aged. But they’ve recently been asked to discuss or make amends and today, still don’t. Japan is also know to be somewhat misogynistic. Of course not all of them.

But isn’t that the point? Every nation has troubles and troubled people. And every nation has achievements and good people. In fact, I’d hazard a guess that all wars of the past 200 years have been fought by people who more listened to the few in leadership who begot the war than had de novo hatred for the other nation.

So I’d suggest that judging a country’s citizens based on their government or the bad people who make the news is inaccurate. Making negative global generalizations about a populace is also something best avoided.

[ScotL]

Unfortunately, many Americans have not noticed that they do not any longer live as hunters and trappers on the frontier, nor that an over-powered semi-automatic is not necessarily the best tool for shooting a turkey, never mind a burger.

You really think most of America hasn’t noticed we don’t have to shoot what we eat?

[ScotL]

As an American who is proud to be an American, just like I hope the citizens of what ever country that were born in, are proud to be a citizen of, can we all just step back and take a breath.

I grew up in a part of the world where hunting was a religion. First day of deer season was a virtual holiday. I grew up with law abiding folks who didn’t need to shoot what they ate but enjoyed hunting. They also enjoyed target shooting. But they didn’t flash it around to intimidate and to date, no one I know has killed anyone with a gun. Or anything for that matter.

America has problems. Absolutely. Tell me what country doesn’t. I currently live in a wonderfully diverse place. When I travel, I never see the same level of diversity. Is diversity good? I’d say yes. Does the mixing of different cultures cause problems? Of course. But as a “social experiment” I’m proud to be a part of it and in my own estimation, continue to work towards a fair and just society. And before anyone jumps on that statement, no, that is not the society America has currently.

But it’s not the society anyone has. Yet. Speaking with some friend native to a part of Europe (will not name because I do not want to make this a pointing fingers post) they swore their country didn’t have these problems. “Loads of diversity”. When we looked, it was over 90% white and there were several articles of how people of color all were in menial jobs and that there was strong anti immigrant sentiments as a PARTIAL reason for this.

Guns in America is a huge problem. I’m against private citizens having assault weapons in their homes. I’m in favor of guns like these being locked up and only used in gun ranges. Why not get rid of them you ask? Because people like them. Like people like fast cars. You can get from point A to point B in any functional car. But some like cars and want or create faster cars. That can kill and given their speeds can kill more than just one if they careen into a crowd fast enough. And some people do use cars to kill.

But calling each side of the gun debate “ignorant” or “forgot we aren’t hunters and trappers anymore” serves to do nothing but inflame. We seem to not discuss and debate anymore without delving into name calling, insults and yelling. And that’s the biggest problem I see in the world. Our inability to hear another, discuss both sides and come to a reasonable solution that works for both sides. It shouldn’t be about winning and losing.

We are all citizens of Earth. If we are really bent on living the good life, can we not just stop ranting and bashing each other?

[Ray]

Scot,

I’ve tried to tread carefully around the gun debate. But when Al wades in with certain comments, it’s hard not to respond.

Why did I not add my comments to those of my contact? For the very reasons Al cited. I am not in a position to add weight to the comments because I’ve not been in the US for 5 years. The reference was timely (I met the guy yesterday) and relevant (a real example of [rad-fem hate-speech redacted]).

I’ll withdraw from this thread to aid the defusing of tensions.

[Midas]

I think this debate has become too silly, with some ridiculous assertions on both sides. It’s time for a knight in full armour to start hitting people with a dead chicken.

[jamie001]

Please don't hit me with a dead chicken! I don't want chicken blood on my new skirt!

It is interesting to note that my comment about men committing 90 percent of violent crimes was completely ignored by everyone responding to this thread. Why? Because to acknowledge this statistical fact is akin to acknowledging that masculinity is inferior. That is why are society needs to move toward feminization of boys at an early age. Because of this socialization, females are much better equipped to deal with their emotions and realize that violence is an unacceptable solution. Boys are socialized with to believe that aggression and violence are ok. The whole "boys will be boys" mindset that parents mention and chuckle when little Johnny has little Joey on the ground in a headlock.

If you don't agree with me that men are intrinsically violent because of their socialization and you believe that men are not the problem, then you are displaying typical masculine behavior and you don't even realize it! The steps to making progress are:

1. Acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of violent crime is committed by males whether with a gun, knife, strangulation, bashing in someone's head with a club, or beating someone to death. Do some research before commenting on this.

2. Acknowledge that male behavior in item #1 above is a result of male socialization that starts at a very early age.

3. Admit that masculinity is inferior after accepting assertions 1 and 2 above. It is almost impossible for most males to do this step, whereas most women when presented with these concepts wholeheartedly agree.

4. Acknowledge that masculinity is inferior and that femininity is superior. The only way to fix society is to devalue masculinity and promote feminine behavior starting at an early age. Boys should be rewarded for emulating feminine behavior.

[crfriend]

Then simply put every last man on the planet to death and be done with. Then fully 100% of violent acts will be committed by women.

[jamie001]

Then simply put every last man on the planet to death and be done with. Then fully 100% of violent acts will be committed by women.

I have received this response several times when presenting my facts to men. Case in point, most men cannot accept step #3 because they believe that femininity is inherently weak, flawed, and a downgrade for men to embrace. Once we release this primitive mindset that has been engrained for generations, we can evolve and realize that femininity is superior and that we should aspire to emulate it.

[crfriend]

I have received this response several times when presenting my facts to men. Case in point, most men cannot accept step #3 because they believe that femininity is inherently weak, flawed, and a downgrade for men to embrace. Once we release this primitive mindset that has been engrained for generations, we can evolve and realize that femininity is superior and that we should aspire to emulate it.

Face it, this horse is dead, and has been dead for years.

The crime numbers are somewhat of a fiction because most violent crime committed by women (either directly or by proxy) goes unreported. Furthermore, the answer is most certainly not to turn men into ersatz women, but to rather allow them once again the full range of their emotions.

Thus, the Final Solution (and I used that term for a reason) is to simply exterminate each and every human that possesses a "Y" chromosome and be done with. Hardly practical, and would receive a large amount of pushback from about 95% of the population.

Barring the above, something certainly has to be done, and I think it starts with allowing men to express the emotions that they all have -- in the full range -- and stop stigmatising. De-stigmatise the issue of mental health and allow men to seek actual help when they need it without penalising them for the act. The path things are on now is not sustainable in the long run, and the Old Thinking -- including forced "feminisation" -- has not yielded one whit of result. It's time to let humans be humans so long as they can respect one another.

[Coder]

It is interesting to note that my comment about men committing 90 percent of violent crimes was completely ignored by everyone responding to this thread. Why? Because to acknowledge this statistical fact is akin to acknowledging that masculinity is inferior.

Where is your source for this "fact"? I hate to be the guy that says "show us your sources" but for this I ask: where do you get this number from? Additionally, how is this percentage related to the population as a whole? If 90% of MEN were violent, I'd accept your premise... but if that 90% number is only 1% of men... then it's not a problem with men or masculinity, but with how people are brought up and raised, cultural expectations, but not their nature. I don't think anyone responded because it's a silly assertion to make without backing it up with facts.

3. Admit that masculinity is inferior after accepting assertions 1 and 2 above. It is almost impossible for most males to do this step, whereas most women when presented with these concepts wholeheartedly agree.

Well of course they would agree with bashing men! You aren't attacking women's inbuilt nature! Try to tell them there are issues with femininity, and they will have the same reaction as men and will refuse to accept femininity as inferior.

I agree with crfriend - bottling up of emotions, treating men like dirt are a major reason why we see such violent outbursts from men.