Sinned wrote:I thank you for the link bit Professor Dougan speaks as an academic from a legal point of view and describes the workings of the EU and I have learnt lots of things that I didn't know about the workings. BUT. He glosses over quite a lot and the fact is that although he paints quite a rosy picture, in the practical, as opposed to theoretical situation, the EU is failing, politically and economically. Greece has austerity measures imposed by the EU, mainly Germany contrary to democratically elected local leadership which is producing a virtually destitute population. Other East European counties with very poor economies being allowed to join the Euro when they are patently not ready for it, could be equally disastrous. On the issue of influence I would disagree with him in that because agreement is by majority vote our influence is very little at all and becomes even less with each country that joins. Just look at how Cameron's requirements for staying in were diluted throughout the intensive negotiations and the whole thing is now considered a farce. It would have been in the interests of the EU to have granted some concessions but Cameron couldn't even get half of what was wanted. It is being reported that what agreements he did come out with have as much validity as if they were written on the back of a fag packet. In terms of our attempts at influence at a high level on anything important to us is dismal. In terms of sovereignty he is stating the current position yet it cannot be denied that, even if we don't want to go that route, there is an increasing federalism, overtly discussed by some EU leaders, among the other western European nations that we will eventually have to face, either join or stand back. How far down he federalist route do we have to let the EU go before we make a decision - I don't want to be a member of a federalist union. We seem unable to influence that at all. So whilst I have learnt things it still doesn't change my mind, and you probably wouldn't have expected it to. In his mind it works but he is probably so far involved in the wood of the legal aspects that he can't see the elm forest being subsumed by Dutch Elm Disease. No, not everything is rosy in the EU and about half the country don't like what they see either. Let's just agree to disagree. Drains coffee, says farewell and will STILL vote OUT in the referendum.
I quite agree. I also look for the long term with my decision on Europe. I do not doubt some big steps back for UK but it is down to politicians, industry, us as individuals to work at it. UK is a great nation but it is being suffocated. I'll not repeat my earlier post or add to it except I would not buy a car with a series of problems, patched problems and then take a long journey in it. If Scotland gets another ref on Independence and gets it then that's for the future. Nobody knows the future not Governments and professional bodies who get long term short term and 12 month predictions regularly wrong. Individuals in their own lives cannot predict future and I certainly do not plan on what if but on facts here and now.
This weekend I was talking to chap from the Netherlands. He would vote out, many in Europe sympathise with UK and feel EU is seriously flawed. Netherlands had referendum 6th April 2016 62% not in favour of EU taking in Ukraine. Look up on Internet. Denmark rejected further inclusion of EU court in late 2015. From his friends in europe other contries populations are becoming unhappy with EU as it stands. He was very interesting to talk to, a commercial heavy jet pilot and many years in EU. He would vote out but has no vote on 23rd. For me it is purely the set up of the EU why I vote out. Politically it does not work as one and shows no sign of trying to do so.
An interest report on Radio 4 on 14th June 2016 Today programme between 7.30 am and 8.45 am. Short piece by Gary Klish of Klish and Co. May have spelt name wrong as radio does not provide names in words. An American financier, well regarded in industry and clearly says why UK should leave EU. He also adds world entering recession again as a whole because socities will not embrace change and humans as a whole generally do not like change and remain with the status quo. Nothing has been learnt from the world 2008 finance crisis. The EU is a prime culprit and has never got out of recession since 2008. It is well worth listening to but you must go via BBC IPlayer.
I have no problem with pissin' on anyone's campfire...
