Political Chatter

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Now that Bamaskirting thread in Freestyle Fashions has wandered away from politics and back to clothing I thought I'd move politics to its rightful place, Off-Topic.

Carl, the so-called Patriot Act, especially the way it is being abused, IS an abomination. However, there seems to be a correction underway. As far as security cameras go, they're nearly all for privately owned buildings rather than their being a law enforcement tool so there is no coordination, except after a crime, and few are monitored on an on-going basis.

As far as pain relief goes, that has been the main impetus behind states adopting first medical marijuana laws, which are leading to recreational marijuana laws. Having a wife and a daughter in medicine I can tell you that opioid use is totally out of control in this country is totally out of control and needs to be reined back in before we had a nation of drug addicts. There are much better ways to treat chronic pain than ever-increasing dosages of pain killers, which is the standard treatment today.

On the point of mystery men behind a curtain I almost categorically reject conspiracies. Almost without exception when something historical happens at the behest of conspirators they can't wait to brag about it. And do. It's human nature. Consequently, I categorically reject theories of long-running conspiracies. But that's just my opinion ... that happens to be shared by all of the recognized historians that I am aware of. But then again maybe they've been bought off ... what I'm saying with that last remark is that when it comes to conspiracies I'm more than happy to agree to disagree.

[crfriend]

Carl, the so-called Patriot Act, especially the way it is being abused, IS an abomination. However, there seems to be a correction underway.

I'll believe that when I can read the relevant [non-secret] statutes.

As far as security cameras go, they're nearly all for privately owned buildings rather than their being a law enforcement tool so there is no coordination, except after a crime, and few are monitored on an on-going basis.

Indeed, but each and every one of them is well-known and subject to subpoena at a moment's notice -- and sometimes secretly.

As far as pain relief goes, that has been the main impetus behind states adopting first medical marijuana laws, which are leading to recreational marijuana laws. Having a wife and a daughter in medicine I can tell you that opioid use is totally out of control in this country is totally out of control and needs to be reined back in before we had a nation of drug addicts. There are much better ways to treat chronic pain than ever-increasing dosages of pain killers, which is the standard treatment today.

Indeed, and the supposed loosening of the assorted cannabis laws is useful; note, however, that it's on a state level and not federal, and the federal government largely ignores state laws when it comes to enforcement of federal ones.

As far as the "Opioid Crisis" goes, take a quick look at what's going on in New England. All I can say is that I hope if some of the solons behind the proposed laws break a femur in several places that they'll be subject to the laws that they propose. The medical community for too long has regarded suffering in pain as a sign of strength and have been unwilling to address it -- especially in end-of-life stages. Are these drugs over-prescribed? I rather suspect not by the overwhelming majority of practitioners. Also, I'm not speaking of chronic pain, for there are indeed better ways to combat that: I'm speaking of acute pain, and that's where opiates are the ultimate tool.

On the point of mystery men behind a curtain I almost categorically reject conspiracies.

The US hasn't required "conspiracy" since the Nixon administration. Today, the Leader decrees that it's legal and it magically is. So, conspiracy is as an obsolete concept. What is useful, though, is to keep the public's mind away from what's actually going on behind the scenes, and that's I think the genesis behind the "polarisation" of politics in the US today. Despite all the "dysfunction" in Washington DC today, when was it that a bill that would benefit the economic elite actually failed to pass a "vote" -- in spite of all the publicly-facing rancour?

[... W]hat I'm saying with that last remark is that when it comes to conspiracies I'm more than happy to agree to disagree.

Indeed, and that's the hallmark of civilised behaviour.
Quite honestly, I hope that my model is proven wrong and that the United States hasn't followed Russia into becoming an oligarchy. However, all visible signs indicate that it has -- especially when one looks at policy as it emerges from the "political process".

[Sinned]

If it's any consolation the situation in Britain isn't really any better. The names may change but the type of personnel involved don't. All through history rule has been by an elite, distanced from the proletariat, based around a rigid class system centred on the monarchy. Look at the current top two as examples of this - Cameron and Osborne are products of the Eton-Oxbridge education system. Both are from wealthy families, are millionaires in their own right and neither has had a real job in industry. They haven't had to worry about a mortgage, had to eke out a limited income to the end of the month and so on. How can such understand how you and I manage on a day to day basis. And these are the ones making crucial decisions on our behalf. Here is an example of how out of touch Grasping George is. To digress just a little, over here we have private landlords, of whom I have been one, who purchase a house or flat probably via a buy to let mortgage and let it out to a family or others. In calculating personal tax one has been allowed to deduct reasonable expenses such as maintenance, repairs, insurance and crucially the interest on the mortgage. In George's last budget he has said that he wants to even the playing field and open up the housing market to first time buyers and he is proposing to do this by ending the ability to claim as an expense the mortgage interest. But only for small private landlords - limited companies are exempt and rich landlords with many properties are exempt. Those that make large contributions to the Conservative party. Now the effect of this is that virtually all of the rent coming in is regarded as income and subject to Income Tax thus pushing people into higher tax brackets. Of course a landlord can't absorb such an increase and so will increase the rent to recoup the increase in tax. The result is that if the tenant can't pay the increase then they will be evicted and either the property sold or a new tenant who can pay installed. Of course the ones most affected are those on the lower rungs of the ladder and especially those receiving social security payments - the most vulnerable. Do the elite care or are they even aware of what they are proposing, what do you think. There is a group of landlords in the process of taking the government and the inland revenue to court on the basis that choosing just one subset of landlords is unfair and probably illegal. Fortunately I sold my last house with a mortgage a couple of years ago before this was envisioned. Oh, and where did this proposal come from - a postgraduate student thesis picked up by a minority political party - the Green Party. There are other side effects which I won't go into here but this is a really serious issue affecting millions of people. Disgust isn't the half of what my emotions are at the moment on this. The fact that the properties being sold are unlikely to appeal to first time buyers is immaterial and some tenants may want to be mobile and not want to purchase a property at that time - the single, young graduate may be one example.

Oh and for the few years when we didn't have a monarch even Cromwell was landed gentry and as well meaning and pious as he is made out to be he could be as cruel and ruthless in his own way - ask the Irish about this.

[Orange Apple]

If it's any consolation the situation in Britain isn't really any better. The names may change but the type of personnel involved don't. All through history rule has been by an elite, distanced from the proletariat, based around a rigid class system centred on the monarchy.

The class structure may be more visible in Britain, and you may have a more formal history of a monarchy, but the reality is that the same is true here in the US. I remember a story from a few years ago related to one of the Bush's and his lack of knowledge of the price of milk. There are a few exceptions - politicians who didn't have a privileged childhood - but I expect the same thing is true across the Pond, and the unfortunate thing is that by the time they reach a position with any real power they're out of touch with their background and surrounded by people who have no regard for any segment of the population other than their own.

And I'm not sure how the situation is in Britain, but here in the US the corporate lobbyists basically run the show. The "new" regulations put in place to curb abuses in the financial industry were written by the financial industry and are enforced by "regulators" who stepped into that role from management positions in the finance industry. The same is true for healthcare and energy. The politicians are at their beck and call because without the money that they "donate" to them, they wouldn't be able to conduct their reelection campaigns.

... In George's last budget he has said that he wants to even the playing field and open up the housing market to first time buyers and he is proposing to do this by ending the ability to claim as an expense the mortgage interest. But only for small private landlords - limited companies are exempt and rich landlords with many properties are exempt. Those that make large contributions to the Conservative party.

Sounds amazingly familiar. In the US, the federal government has essentially subsidized home purchase for decades by allowing a deduction on personal income tax for mortgage interest. The idea was that owning your own home was Good, and that renting was Bad. But when the bottom fell out of the housing market, a lot of folks who should never have been in it were in a world of hurt. I am sure that there are two sides to this question but I do not believe that the government should be encouraging personal purchase of homes to the extent that the US government does.

Oh and for the few years when we didn't have a monarch even Cromwell was landed gentry and as well meaning and pious as he is made out to be he could be as cruel and ruthless in his own way - ask the Irish about this.

Not just the Irish. I don't think this is a particularly glorious period in your history.

[Sinned]

Oh, I don't know I vaguely remember that we had a tax allowance as private citizens for the interest we paid on our mortgage but the government docked that on the head 40 years or so ago. What I was talking about was a normal business expense, which mortgage interest is, and removing it for just one sector of the rental market. Lobbying goes on over here but it's made worse because it's possible for the lobbyists to make contributions, no let's call them for what they are, bribes to the political parties for which they expect something in return, and always get it. Of course if you have ever watched two programme series called Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister about a newly elected Minister called Jim Hackett and his interaction with his Civil Service contacts, mainly Sir Humphrey then you have a pretty accurate assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't with the politicians, it's definitely with the Civil Service. PM Maggie Thatcher used to watch it and agreed that it was all true to life. You may be able to catch it on YouTube, I don't know.

You lot get a lot of stick for intervening in world affairs at the moment but I wonder if there ARE any glorious periods in our history. To listen to some it would seem not.

[moonshadow]

Whew! I just got done writing a SCATHING post about the state of affairs this nation is in... but then changed my mind about posting it. Figured it was best to move it over the a text file and save it for private viewing....

But suffice it to say... Moon Shadow is pretty unhappy with humanity.

Not to put too fine a point on it... but if I let everything that's in my head out at once... I'd have a bigger bullseye on my ass than Target. I'm sure I'd rub MANY the wrong way, and frankly, I just don't feel like dealing with the backlash tonight. I'm dealing with some personal "blows" this week, and have been seriously reckoning the overall direction of my life... it's probably not a good time for me to indulge in random politics right now.

FYI: My issues have nothing (or very little) to do with skirts, or my wearing of them, and absolutely nothing to do with Jenn, or my marriage. Her and I seem to be getting along okay. Which is good, because I definitely don't need those kind of problems right now on top of everything else.

A change needs to be made. I just don't know what direction to go, or how to go about going there. I have a knack for making the WRONG decision on matters like this.

[crfriend]

Whew! I just got done writing a SCATHING post about the state of affairs this nation is in... but then changed my mind about posting it. Figured it was best to move it over the a text file and save it for private viewing....

That's always a wise idea when contemplating dropping "the Big One".

But suffice it to say... Moon Shadow is pretty unhappy with humanity.

I suspect you have company.

Not to put too fine a point on it... but if I let everything that's in my head out at once... I'd have a bigger bullseye on my ass than Target.

A picture, they say, is worth a thousand words.

A change needs to be made. I just don't know what direction to go, or how to go about going there. I have a knack for making the WRONG decision on matters like this.

With luck and good fortune the issue will be resolved acceptably for all.

[moonshadow]

A picture, they say, is worth a thousand words.


With luck and good fortune the issue will be resolved acceptably for all.

Thanks Carl... I needed that!

[moonshadow]

This is my song for today.... rather fits the theme of this thread (at least my position on it...)

https://youtu.be/CqlsVypKIu8

Lyrics:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/brightey ... blues.html
(not a single line doesn't apply....)

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Sinned, I can't imagine what good that graduate student thought would come of such a woolly-headed law as the one on mortgage interest that you cited, but that very definitely is a Deusy! (Original spelling because it referred to the American Duesenberg automobile.)

For sure large corporations are pulling too many of the levers of power in the US and have been for too long. That's why I hope that soon and very soon Bernie Sanders takes a step back and a deep breath so he can see the big picture that shows his ideas, which fundamentally are solid, have their best chance of getting implemented by getting Hillary as large a plurality as possible with as wide a coattails as possible so the Democrats control the House and Senate again. The sooner he comes to that realization and stops feeding lines to Trump in his overwrought, but ultimately futile, attempt to gain the nomination, the more influence he'll have in the Platform Committee.

If he just stays inside the tent and serves as a good lieutenant, he can set the future direction of the Democratic Party and ultimately have more power and influence than if he was elected. But he needs to get some perspective and FAST.

[Orange Apple]

Sinned, I can't imagine what good that graduate student thought would come of such a woolly-headed law as the one on mortgage interest that you cited, but that very definitely is a Deusy! (Original spelling because it referred to the American Duesenberg automobile.)

My factoid for the day. The things you can learn reading a forum that is nominally about men's skirts.

For sure large corporations are pulling too many of the levers of power in the US and have been for too long. That's why I hope that soon and very soon Bernie Sanders takes a step back and a deep breath so he can see the big picture that shows his ideas, which fundamentally are solid, have their best chance of getting implemented by getting Hillary as large a plurality as possible with as wide a coattails as possible so the Democrats control the House and Senate again. The sooner he comes to that realization and stops feeding lines to Trump in his overwrought, but ultimately futile, attempt to gain the nomination, the more influence he'll have in the Platform Committee.

If he just stays inside the tent and serves as a good lieutenant, he can set the future direction of the Democratic Party and ultimately have more power and influence than if he was elected. But he needs to get some perspective and FAST.

I am sure that this is a conversation that the campaign has had many times. It would appear that they have decided that Bernie can maximize his influence by getting as many delegate votes as possible. The platform of the political parties is a pretty useless document and garnering influence to change that document is not that helpful in terms of long-term influence. It seems to me that a better long-term strategy would be to buddy up at this point and begin to create favors that you can call in later. You're right that the real goal is to maximize influence in both houses of Congress.

I hope that Bernie's success has sent a message to the movers and shakers in the Democratic party, but the cynic in me realizes that it's unlikely that much will change.

A few of you may remember when Jesse Ventura was elected as governor of Minnesota in a year when the electorate was so fed up with the shenanigans of both major parties that they voted in droves for an alternative. Like the President, the Governor is but one person, and Ventura accomplished basically nothing during his term because he had no cooperation from the people who actually vote for legislation. Since he was a candidate of neither major party, it's difficult to gauge how much change his win had for their actions. One would hope that the electorate speaking in such strong and unabibious terms would get through even the thickest of skulls in the party leadership, but I doubt there was much real impact.

[bobmoore]

What concerns me is that so many people want America to follow the same disastrous socialist path that has crippled every society that has ever tried it. Sanders is a Socialist, with unicorn fart ideas about where wealth and production come from.

The original Pilgrim colony was set up as socialist, and they nearly starved to death because no one was willing to work only to have his labor be given to the lazy. Once the Compact was changed to provide for individual industry, the Colony flourished.

Sanders "thinking" is mist, nothing more. It alarms me that so many see only the glitter on the gilded pig of socialism, and ignore the stench the hog invariably produces.

[moonshadow]

What concerns me is that so many people want America to follow the same disastrous socialist path that has crippled every society that has ever tried it. Sanders is a Socialist, with unicorn fart ideas about where wealth and production come from.

The original Pilgrim colony was set up as socialist, and they nearly starved to death because no one was willing to work only to have his labor be given to the lazy. Once the Compact was changed to provide for individual industry, the Colony flourished.

Sanders "thinking" is mist, nothing more. It alarms me that so many see only the glitter on the gilded pig of socialism, and ignore the stench the hog invariably produces.

I can see the logic in the argument. Personally I hate to see the world come to the point where socialism may be necessary. It would be nice if people would do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do.

But we must at least acknowledge what has brought us to this place of glorifying Sanders, that being the divide between the ultra rich and the ultra poor. I read your post, and yes I'll agree that people need to work for the food in their belly... ALL people need to. This is the way of nature. All wild animals have to put forth some type of effort to stay alive. You know who else doesn't work? The elite! They take advantage of all of the spoils of modern life, and yet they lift no fingers to make it happen. All they do is direct orders to people under them. And now, tax dodging seem to be the trend for ultra rich. So it's not bad enough they don't know the meaning of hard labor, but they don't even want to pay their share of the exploits of others hard labor in the form of taxes. Further, they have even stripped us our ability to find gainful employment. In the name of profit and million dollar summer homes, they outsourced the bulk of our manufacturing base overseas where they can further exploit cheaper unskilled labor. MEANWHILE us back home have to saddle ourselves up with enormous amounts of student loan debt, with the interest of such going to the very "pigs" that put us here (the elite) just so we can compete in an ever tightening job market, where morale frequently tanks, and we are ultimately working towards nothing.

Personally... I say f___k the rich elite! They don't care about my hide... or yours! All they care about is themselves! They have no compassion whatsoever. If I lost everything I thought I had tomorrow, they'd loose no sleep... I could careless about them likewise. If they all jumped off a cliff, it would probably do the world good. And I'll offer a "hell yeah!" and back anyone who is willing make those scum bags pay their share.

[crfriend]

We have seen the failures of both Communism and Laissez-faire Capitalism writ large in history, and the United States is now very deeply into the latter, has been since the 1980s, and continues to dig in deeper.

Recall that Russia under the Czars was quite deeply involved with Laissez-faire Capitalism, that was brought down by force, and the (failed) experiment of Communism tried. That came down in the end, from both internal and external pressures, to be replaced with the modern Oligarchy.

Now, take a look at the inner workings of both modern Russia and the United States. The similarities are striking, save that Russia makes no bones about its political system. The United States carries on a complex charade to "keep up the appearance" of remaining a republic, when in operation it doesn't work like one at all; it has morphed from a Republic into an Oligarchy as surely as Russia collapsed and became one. This is one of the reasons I regard the current farce of the looming "election" with such disdain.

Bernie's rhetoric is spot on the money, but there's no way he'll ever get close to the post of President. The elites will not allow it, any more than they allowed John Edwards to, who pointedly ran with the "Two Americas" theme -- pointing up the same abuses that Sanders is now. He "got his" in a smear campaign similar to the trap set for Bill Clinton (don't these guys ever learn?). I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll see the same thing with Trump, save for the fact that he'll revel in it not having the intelligence to know better.

So we have Trump ("Putin Lite"), Hillary (Dubya in drag), and Sanders for theatrical effect (but with very pointed and relevant rhetoric which the country as a whole ignores at its peril). There's no way that Sanders will be allowed to win, and the other two are so utterly revolting I suspect the sane folks will stay home in droves this time 'round leaving the "election" to the frothing fools in either extreme camp. This one's so disgusting that, to quote Henry Kissinger, "Is there any way they can both lose?" This isn't even a "hold your nose and vote for the lesser of evils" event. Not, note, that how the public actually votes matters a lick. This decision was made years ago.

[moonshadow]

Once again Carl takes the garbled up mess in my head and prints it out in an understandable way.

Spot on Mr. Friend!

Now, take a look at the inner workings of both modern Russia and the United States. The similarities are striking, save that Russia makes no bones about its political system. The United States carries on a complex charade to "keep up the appearance" of remaining a republic, when in operation it doesn't work like one at all; it has morphed from a Republic into an Oligarchy as surely as Russia collapsed and became one. This is one of the reasons I regard the current farce of the looming "election" with such disdain.

Dead on accurate! And this is why I could care less about those who few who are pulling the strings.

So we have Trump ("Putin Lite"), Hillary (Dubya in drag)

Now that's funny!

Anyway... many folks around here were either Trump or Cruz supporters. Now that Cruz has dropped out, most are falling inline behind Trump as their savior. They made many jabs at "Bern it Sanders"...

Well Carl... as you pointed out in an earlier post, perhaps it's time for this ship to sink already...

"Let 'er burn... er uh bern... which ever..."

I've got me a good spot picked out by a lake to watch it unfurl.