Not being helped in retail stores

[Bri]

Same with kids today like the ones who stand on the corner and in the street when we come home from whatever. The kids really don't care about moving because they know there's really nothing we can do about it. They know more about being able to sue people than what it's like to be in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives. It might take 20 years for them to realize that it really sucks being in a wheel chair just because at the time they thought they were so cool and really just stupid that a lawsuit would be the best thing, they could have all our money and things and even force us to pay for their hospital bills, yet money is the only thing they think of, not their freedom and mobility.

This goes with the CP stuff since1982 was talking about. Kids today aren't stupid, not any dumber than they used to be, but they know (and the earlier generation) taught them that there was no consequence to many of their actions. It almost sadly takes jail time to convince kids today. Now kids are also so protected by the law that if you make a slight imprint of a hand or something that shows you hit them, you're the one in trouble, not them. I'm all for reasoning with kids and using psychological ways of punishing them and teaching a lesson, yes some might call it that new age hippy crap. Yet there are times when I know that you have to hit someone to shock them back into reality sometimes.

Parents today also have quite a bit more to watch out for than when I was 15 or so. Their influences are everywhere, and more difficult to control. Not saying parents can't control their kids, because they can. Not being a parent of course I might get quite a few flames but I think kids do need a really good scare because most of them think of course that they're invincible. Of course the analogy that I give some who I talk to sometimes who aren't being good kids is that you can walk on the edge of a cliff all day and say you'll never fall off, but the second you get careless is when you fall off and it really hurts you. Again though, I don't try to help everyone because I know you have to feel the shock from the light socket and being told what it feels like is useless.

[Sarongman]

Since 1982 has a most valid point about CP. From a personal perspective, I have two daughters, the older one has a three year old who is not physically chastised and is-I hate to say- a brat much of the time. The second daughter uses a judicious amount of CP when it becomes absolutely necessary and has a lovely, well adjusted child (with grandfatherly bias taken into consideration.) I would hate to be a teacher in this day and age as the threat of the cane ( and a punishing handshake from a certain science teacher which left the victim on the floor) was a strong deterrent to antisocial behaviour in my school days. As a retired Christian Brother said to me when I mentioned my old report cards with "could do better if he tried" "Thrash thrash, whack whack!"

[Kris]

Sarongman, no one can really complain much about rude young people. We (the older generation) did it to ourselves by holding back on CP when the children were young enough to understand that courtesy was good and rudeness was bad. WE were busy telling our kids that they were perfect and could do no wrong. So they created the "ME" generation and now we are seeing the downside of that. By the way, if anyone doesn't know what CP is, I'll tell you. It's properly applied Corporal Punishment. Always with an open hand across the bottom, firm but not to injure, just to teach. Every mother in the wild world, from Lions to monkeys spanks their children, it's the only thing that really works. We didn't, now we have to live with rude children..

I'm part of the older generation, I suppose, at 59. My parents did not use "CP", as you call it, to teach me to behave in a civilized manner. Most human parents and children are more intelligent than their counterparts in the wild, and have other methods of training the young ones.
Now I will readily agree that many of the parents in my generation, and the one that followed, did not do a very good job of teaching their children to behave with courtesy and respect, but I can't agree that "holding back on CP" is the major cause of that failure.
As a related point, people can train domestic dogs (and even cats) without resorting to "CP". In fact "CP" is generally considered to be counterproductive by trainers. (Perhaps Sapphire will chime in here.) So if you can train dogs and cats without hitting them, why not children?
Kris
Kris

[sapphire]

My mother, the ex-Marine, was a big fan of "CP". It did nothing to get us to behave. It only caused resentment, distrust and dislke. We still did what we were going to do but learned to be surreptitous.

In animal training, the currrent wisdom is to use positive reinforcement to develop desired behaviors and distraction methods to discourage undesireable behaviors.

[AMM]

I have two boys, now in the mid-to-late teens. Everyone who knows them considers them "high maintenance."

The closest thing to Corporal Punishment that I have used is a cold shower, and that maybe three or four times total. Oh, I occasionally grab an ear and tug it to get their attention (less damage than a 2x4 ), but it stops the second they respond, as it's not intended as punishment.

I'd say they're about as well behaved as you can expect a teen-ager to be. They're more respectful than most of their peers, if a bit headstrong and hard to herd around. And quite caring.

The main thing I've used in my discipline is consistency: every time I try to make them do something, I think beforehand whether I am willing and able to make them do it. If I don't think I'm going to be able to go all the way, I don't get started in the first place. It means there are fewer things I demand of them, but they've learned that if I demand something, I'm going to get them to do it. Their choice is whether we do it the easy way or the hard way.

It's a lot of work. For instance, when they're at my place, they must clear their places after each meal, they have to take a shower once a day, they have to pick up their room, and they have to put their clothes away. I can't just tell them once and walk away; I keep after them and bug them until it gets done. (Almost) every time. That's good for something like 2 hours each evening, although it's getting a little easier than it was 4 years ago. I spend a lot of time saying "because I said so," or "it's my job to torture you."

Their mother has a tendency to say "you must" more often than me, but not to follow through. And to blow up at them and yell at them. She has a lot more trouble getting them to pay attention to her.

I also try to spend a fair amount of time with them when I'm not ordering them around. I try not to expect them to be more organized or mature than they can be (or than I am, for that matter.) I apologize if I think I've done wrong by them. And I try to let them have their way when I can. My orders are not just for my convenience, they're to help them learn to take care of themselves, and I think they realize that.

And I respect them. I think that helps.

[Since1982]

Blowing up and yelling usually gets nothing but talking behind the door responses. Tugging that ear IS corporal punishment. True CP is defined as witholding favors to get a prescribed response, sitting down with children and taking time to explain to them WHY something needs to be done in a certain way. Actually HITTING a child with anything other than an open hand lightly applied to the buttocks is cruelty and can't be allowed. I raised 2 sons to the age of 17 before GOD took them home with him and If they'd lived, they'd be productive members of society now. They were NEVER beaten with anything, only lightly spanked on the rear followed by loss of privileges for up to a week, more often only a few hours. They were taught early on to refer to older people as Sir and Ma-am and answer with Yessir and Yessum. I was very proud of them and really miss their vibrant faces and wide smiles. Life goes on though, but I was never able to start over with a new family. Just couldn't find the person to replace a irreplaceable friend. Mike, Todd and Rosie live in my dreams and will till I see them again.

[Donald]

If you think that may be a problem, try being a male with gynecomastia like myself and shopping for a bra. Of course, when looking through the racks for my size in my style, I have had a few clerks come over and ask if I needed help. But then, most of the time they are middle aged women working in lingerie. I have never seen a younger employee working there. However, one woman that was the usual knew they were for me and why. She was always polite and asked if I wanted to try it on before purchase. I never needed to though because I knew how it fit.

Up until recently, I never needed help because when it was time for a new bra, I went and picked out my size and style. But...since they discontinued my favorite bra, I have had to look around for something similar!! And the last time I was buying a new bra, I did not get help either.

[Miket]

Since1082, I don't often agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly, but I'm with you with this one. The parent who fails to exercise some CP, as you put it, fails to set the standards the young people need to live productive and morally correct lives. I work in a prison where one realises very early on that a lot of the prisoners have had no input from any member of their family as to what is acceptable behaviour or not. I have three sons who have only had to suffer a smack at the appropriate time, and not for many years - the youngest being 18, but they know right from wrong and would not push any boundaries!


Miket

[Bri]

I'm going to go to the Eddy Bauer in Southlands mall (outdoor mall) today and see about buying one of their shorter skirts. I'm almost about ready to bring a recorder of some kind with me just to show people exactly how I was helped in the store, but sadly my phone doesn't do more than 60sec. of voice.

[Uncle Al]

...<snip>... but sadly my phone doesn't do more
than 60sec. of voice.

Bri--is that with or without a memory card?
My phone only did 15 second sound clips, but with
the memory card, I can record up to 2-3 hrs.
This is in video mode.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Bri]

Nope, 60sec. regardless of 2gb card or not, it's stupid.

I bought an REI Rendez vous skirt


it's a size 12 which is about a 33-34in. waist and is stretchy.

One of the women in Eddie Bauer was very happy to help me with finding a skirt even though I wasn't going to pay the $50 they wanted for it.
Also found out that Eddie Bauer isn't doing very well financially

The woman at REI was especially helpful with finding a skirt that I liked. She was also laughing that I was taking fotos with my mobile and sending them to my fiancee for approval.. She commented that it was mostly guys who did that. I then told her well, maybe we're doing something right in asking what would look good on us BEFORE we buy it.

[Uncle Al]

Bri-Nice Pic

To bad about the phone voice recording

I'm glad to know someone was willing to help. Did she
even bat an eye when you told her that " maybe we're doing
something right in asking what would look good on us BEFORE
we buy it".

BTW-I like the products from REI, but have yet to find one
that will fit, unless it came from 'Omar-the-tent-maker'.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Bri]

Hahahha, omar-the-tent-maker.

The woman actually came up to me and made a comment like "ahh, another one of you". Just as I was waiting for a txt back. She didn't even seem to care that I was looking at skirts, didn't tell her it was for me until I maybe wanted her to help, but I found everything on my own even though it took time. Their site is much more oganised than their store is. Took my fiancee and I about 20min. of searching (not looking) through the skirts to find the one I had seen online. Of course this was the Denver "flagship" store where many more things go on than just passing product out the door. I'm also wearing the skirt now and when I went to move the car into the garage from the street (a guy was working on our lawn, doing edging), and also to check the mail.

Something about REI that I didn't know was that they're very sensitive as to (and it's on their site) the quality of fabric and clothing/equipment as well as the conditions of the people who manufacture it for them. A lot of clothes were/are made in China, Vietnam, Turkey, Indonesia and a few others but appearantly all of them are made in a sweat free environment. If they're not and they feel they don't want to continue selling a certain brand, they'll pull the brand off the shelves and request their money back for them.

**ATTENTION**

**ATTENTION**

**ATTENTION**
Now if you don't want to get offended by an observation that I made, don't read further. If you read then it's not my fault if you feel bad after it.





[ I put a few questions on yahoo answers about obese women wearing skirts and of course the idiots on there (most on there are) are saying they would rather see a grossly overweight woman walking around in a red cami and a black miniskirt. Nothing wrong with that, and I didn't judge, and it's their right to wear what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, but I as many people feel and I. Would much rather see someone a bit smaller and more attractive in a skirt, and saying that I look ridiculous in a skirt after seeing her. I"m wandering what some of these people are thinking when they say that ]

[packrat272]

Being new to this group I am not familliar with all tyhe details but today I went skirt shopping in a retail store for the first time. Sales people were not very aboundant and did not wander much from theirlittle corner. At customer service they were healpful enough but the sort of skirt that I wanted just was not there. Just for practice I cairfully loked over the closest one they had and that one turned out to be too girly. Now I will agree with that other comment that when I am skirt shopping I may wish to not be witnessed. The only way I can get shoes narrow enough for a comfortable fit is to look for womens shoes. Now if that department is empty I just go for it but my other favorite way is with supportive women in the area once I find some reason to tell of why theese shoes fit me they will even tell me how good I look in three inch heels. That is another story, I get extreme muscle spasims in my lower leg muscles and if I wear three inch heels half he time that porblem mostly goes away. So I guess I would like some help from the sales department if it is supportive and if they have what I am looking for. And I can really get some good advice when I can get the story across that I need high heels for health reasons. But as for buying a skirt that is just because I like the look. So why today was my first time in a retail store because I already have a really good supply of skirts from thrift stores. There I use a dressmakers tape to measure that way I did not need to let on who the skirt was for. Now I still use the tape but I go into the store wearing a skirt.