Why the Automatic Kilt/Scot Association?

[Milfmog]

Isn't it true that the kilt originated with the Celts. Since the Celts were all over western Europe, then anyone in western Europe could legitimately wear a kilt as part of their Celtic identity. Most of us in the US also have Celtic roots too.

As far as I'm concerned, I bought a kilt, it's mine and if I want to wear it I will; that's all the legitimacy I need.

Have fun,


Ian.

[knickerless]

I have worn the odd kilt - but they are not for me. If you wear a kilt - people keep asking if you are Scottish - I am not Scottish and would not want to pretend to be - I don't think a Scot would like to be mistaken for an Englishman either. No offence meant - but we are different races. I don't think Canadians would like to be thought of as American, New Zealanders as Austalian or the Dutch as Belgian.

[AMM]

Isn't it true that the kilt originated with the Celts.

(Putting on my Perfesser Hat....)

According to all the sources I have found, "kilts," as such, originated in Scotland sometime around the 18th Century, that is, about the time that the power of the Highland clans was being destroyed. There are various stories about exactly how they were invented.

What was worn (in Scotland) prior to that time was the "belted plaid", a "plaid" being a double-width (~50" wide) woven wool cloth, several yards long, which was wrapped around the body, usually gathered at the waist (to give freedom of movement) and held onto the body using a belt. It could be adjusted to be as long or as short below the belt as desired, and the upper part could be pulled together and pinned to one shoulder, draped over the shoulders, left to hang over the belt, or whatever you wanted. See http://albanach.org/kilt.html

At night, you could take your plaid off and use it as a blanket. Since men at the time usually wore a long shirt or tunic that went down to somewhere above the knees, plus knee socks (tied up with garters), taking off your plaid wasn't as indecent as it sounds.

Some folks refer to the belted plaid as the "great kilt".

Kilts were basically plaids with the top half cut off and sewn-in pleats. The story goes that they were invented for Highlanders who were working indoors (as opposed to wandering the moors and heaths) and needed something less cumbersome than a plaid.

According to one source on the web, there has been considerable scholarly discussion as to whether Celtic tribes outside the Scottish highlands ever wore kilts/belted plaids/etc., but there is no clear evidence of it, or for Scots wearing it before the [mumble mumble]-th century. That has not stopped people from claiming kilts as part of their Irish/Welsh/Breton/ec. heritage.

(Taking off Perfesser hat....)

But who cares? Most of what we think of as "heritage" is myth, anyway. So why not let people have their fun? (As long as "their fun" doesn't involve swinging shillelaghs or claymores )

[Charlie]

If you wear a kilt - people keep asking if you are Scottish - I am not Scottish and would not want to pretend to be.

Same here - I'm English (and as such have no clothing heritage that I know about, certainly in the unbifurcated line ).

However, I love wearing modern kilts (without a sporran) and yes, I do get asked if I'm Scottish. I take fiendish pleasure in telling them I'm not, and occasionally it really baffles them, the mindset being: 'You're wearing a kilt, therefore you're Scottish'.

The 'Scottish' question occurs more often than the 'underneath' question

Charlie

[knickerless]

I don't mind the underneath question but do object to the Scottish implication. We all something underneath - but few of us are Scottish

[JRMILLER]

Does 25% Scottish blood qualify me to wear a kilt with a tartan? It came in on my father's mothers side of the family. Thus, I don't bear the name, but I am considering MacMiller, son of Miller. What do you think?

Hmm, what about denim kilts? Who are allowed to wear those?

[AMM]

Hmm, what about denim kilts? Who are allowed to wear those?

Only people from Nimes.

[JRMILLER]

Thanks professor, I hadn't heard of it so I looked it up. You must mean Nimes, France. As it turns out in 754 under the leadership of Pepin the Short, the town ruined by so many troubles and invasions and was only a shadow of it's former self. At that time, the remaining people of Nimes (those that survived the barbarian invasions), struck their color and adopted a black, twill like cloth. They named in De-nime, later shortened to Denim. The absence of color demonstrated their despair and general outlook on life.

In later centuries, the De-nime was mildly colorized as the residents general mood and wealth increased. It eventually evolved into the familiar blue. Thus, modern day demin was born!

All this, according to Wikipedia, unless my comprehension isn't what it used to be!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%AEmes

[Peter v]

I have had that too. somebody asked if I was a Scot. I was wearing a skirt.


Do people ask men in neat three piece suits: "Are you an FBI agent, or a mob man? "

It is obvious, the only skirts recognised are Kilts.

Why do they ask?
Is it a way of starting a discussion about you wearing a skirt, in a polite way, or are they just "ignorant" ?

What does it matter what you are?
A better question would be "hello, may I ask, why do you wear a skirt? "

Then I could say what is appropriote:
I am a Scot, and this is Kilt, a traditional costume/garment for men.
Or: "This is a skirt, not a kilt, I like wearing skirts, ....."
Is the question meant to clarify if you are a nutter ( in their eyes) or a Scot legally wearing a skirt ( Kilt) ? in their eyes?

It seems that the askers need an answer to clarify what they see and find unusual.

Peter v

[JRMILLER]

OK, then when I am wearing a skirt, I mean a real, genuine skirt, than I suppose the question would be: "excuse me sir, are you a woman?" To which we answer....

[Milfmog]

I have had that too. somebody asked if I was a Scot. I was wearing a skirt.
< SNIP >
Why do they ask?
Is it a way of starting a discussion about you wearing a skirt, in a polite way, or are they just "ignorant" ?

Who cares why they ask? I have been asked if I have a Scottish connection on a number of occasions, sometimes when wearing a kilt sometimes in other skirts. I just see it as a chance to engage them in conversation and explain that skirts are good for guys. That's a scary thought to some, but I hope that by being polite, rational and friendly I can help to spread the message in a positive way.

It seems that the askers need an answer to clarify what they see and find unusual.

Maybe they just see me as someone out of the ordinary who is interesting enough to be worth talking to for a moment. In fact a week or two ago, I was stopped outside the local supermarket with the opening gambit of "You look like an interesting person to talk to..." I chatted with the motorcyclist in question for ten or fifteen minutes and it turned out that he's a trucker by trade and generally works in shorts and t shirts because he gets too hot. His parting comment was "I guess I'll have to try a skirt and see if it is as comfortable as I think it will be. I'm really glad to have had this conversation."

All encounters with others are opportunities to spread the simple message that men can wear skirts without the whole world crashing to a halt. I firmly believe that if more of us use these opportunities men in skirts could become far more common than they are now in a relatively short time.

Have fun,


Ian.

Edited to correct typo - Ian

[Colin]

Sounds good. I have the complication that my mother is Scottish, so I do claim to be half Scottish, but that is not my reason for wearing a dark blue denim kilt, but I do like the conversational opportunities that the kilt opens up.

[Peter v]

Milfmog, I agree completely, and always kindly answer, and explain in the hope to bring some wisdom to others, that they may understand it better and even try themselves. As their interest may in some cases be because they themselves are thinking about doing it, but aren't ready to take that step yet.

Peter v

[Charlie]

Here's part of a thread on: http://www.menshealth.co.uk/chatroom/pr ... heme=print
Posted Oct 2005 - hope his attitude has changed a bit since then! There are also some positive posts

A kilts a kilt, and a skirts a skirt. A man who wears a kilt is either a scot and not afraid to be proud of it or a copy cat foreigner (could think of one particular country).
A man who wears a skirt is a little worrying i think.
21st century, each to their own, human rights and all that jive, but there's something not quite right if a bloke wears a skirt.

I've just become a member of that board, so when it works properly (I get access errors) I'll put up a post setting the record straight.

Charlie the copycat foreigner

[Departed Member]

......a copy cat foreigner (could think of one particular country).

Intriguing! I'd just love to know which country, the bloke's referring to! I can only think of one Principality where Kilts were never seen (or worn) until about a decade ago!