Inequality...?

[SkirtedViking]

Is it equal just because you are a woman to wear whatever you please and I because am a man no to?I wear even so called female tops and I can assure you,they fit me well and is nowhere near funny,because I have muscular chest that stretches the fabric so well.For me there are no men's or women's items-either i like it or not-no matter the label.Masculinity is inside,the one that emphasizes on the outer too much is just an insecure poser.Just an opinion...

[sapphire]

Skirted Viking,
Huh??

Do you think equality is only about skirts and trousers? Do you think a double standard is limited to only skirts and trousers?

Try this on for size:

In my very first job, all the "girls" (regardless of age) were required to wear skirts. The "girls" were called by their first names and the "girls" were required to call the men "Mr." There were no women in management. We "girls" were either assembly line workers or secretaries.
I was an assembly line worker who was very, very good and got promoted to prototyping.

In that position, besides building prototype computer core memories, I also did my boss's job: workstation design, tools design, factory floor layout, construction project planning, materials and labor cost standards. I got paid $2.50 and hour. He got paid $12.00 an hour for submitting my work and claiming it to be his own. Most of his time was spent screwing secretaries while I did his job.

Now, would you like to talk to me about equality and double standards?

I support your goal for fashion freedom. Don't attack my freedom to choose skirts or trousers. I went through hell to get to this point.

I'm trying to get you to the same place and have been through more than most of you have or could imagine. Please respect that. Please don't attack me while I'm trying to help and support you.

[Sarongman]

Full equality, and fashion freedom is only a small part of the whole, is only going to come about when we, as a world society, realise that we are all interconnected. John Donne wrote a famous sermon with the most quoted lines being " no man is an island, entire of itself alone." and seek not for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

I'm not advocating a drab sameness in the fact we are, in essence, one, far from it! I am proud to be different from the crowd but, I hope, I respect others who have their views. It all boils down to a lack of respect and an intolerance for views that we, ourselves, do not hold. Isn't this the seed of all history's wars? The only thing we should not tolerate is intolerance

I wear skirts in public, but this is of little consequence compared to the belittling and persecution of a person because of their gender, race or sexual orientation. When we do see it, do we see a fear of the different, or the unknown. I know that I feared homosexual men until I realised that a man I respected was one and living in a loving, open relationship with his partner. Once respect and the openness of the knowlege that we are all a part of each other, it won't matter a damn what anyone chooses to wear, we will love them for who they are and not what they look like.

[Bob]

I went through hell to get to this point.

This is the same hell I've seen my mother and later wife go through.

[JeffB1959]

I went through hell to get to this point.

I agree as well. My late mother told me all sorts of grim stories about the struggles she faced for real equality in the workplace. And her struggle was all the harder since she was black. Everything sapphire said was right on the mark, and then some! Let's not forget that true equality is a lot more than just clothes which, in the end, is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

[alexthebird]

[quote="Bob"]Sapphire, I agree with you whoelheartedly. As far as I can see, women are still not (yet) treated as equals to men in the wider society. We need to continue working toward that goal.

I firmly believe that this lies at the heart of the stigma attached to men in skirts. Skirts, dresses, colorful designs, flowing cuts, accessories of all kinds and the very idea of personal adornment are seen to be symbols of femininity. Since, on the whole, society still places more power in the hands of men and shows more respect to men, they are viewed as the dominant class. Conversely, women are subordinated.

Therefore, men who adopt the symbols of the subordinated class must be somehow deviant. Why else would they willingly give up respect to go DOWN the respect ladder?

On the other hand, women who adopt "masculine" symbols (shorter hair, tailored suits, etc.) are seen to be striving towards a higher status.

If we really want fashion freedom, one of the things that has to happen is to continue to work to reduce, if not eliminate, the inequality that is inherent in gender.

[crfriend]

If we really want fashion freedom, one of the things that has to happen is to continue to work to reduce, if not eliminate, the inequality that is inherent in gender.

I'd not say that the problem of inequality is "inherent in gender", but rather is an artificial construct by men placed upon the sexes -- and it's got everything to do with dominance, not with the natural differences between the two.

The dominance aspect is what has to go: it's pernicious and dehumanising. Once that is tossed aside, other aspects of equality will (hopefully) begin to fall into place naturally.

[SkirtedViking]

where did I exactly attack women,sapphire?The first post was something about insecurity whether there is inequality in fashion or not.I answered that one.No one attacks women and please do not try to justify one injustice with another!I am on your side that everyone should be treated equal no matter the gender.