Corona Virus

[Big and Bashful]

Just read somewhere: Better 6 feet apart than 6 feet under.

There was a sign somewhere - if you can't understand keeping 2m/6ft apart, imagine a dead relative on the ground between you...
M

As long as they were quite a tall relative!

[Coder]

These closures are typical ham-fisted State activities, and sometimes I wonder if they're not doing these sorts of idiotic things "just because they can". (The cops and politicians, of course, are exempt.)

...

Some of the measures are getting a bit extreme. Governor Northram, while not banning outdoor recreation, basically did so by shutting down ALL public land. The feds shut down the National Forest.

Anyway, when Northam made the announcement, he almost seemed to sound "parental", very authoritarian. His tone was like "don't do this or else...." The type of rhetoric I haven't heard since my youth.

Well... at least the religious DON'T seem exempt... so far. A Russell County man has already challenged the executive order banning church gatherings. The local judge dismissed it.

While I have sympathy for church goers not being allowed to assemble on one of the most holy days of the year, why should they be exempt just because they believe something something?

If they are allowed to assemble than non-religious people should also be allowed to do what they might normally do...Fair is fair.

This is a right-leaning site - just warning people before they click over:

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/watch-pol ... p-service/

I just don't get ticketing for this - although religious myself I don't think congregations should be congregating at the moment - being in your car appears to be a safe activity (although accidents or a car breakdown can put people at risk).

I also think this would be a great time for drive-in movie theaters. But then what about convertibles and windows rolled down? Well, then maybe one other couple on either side of your vehicle will get COVID - it's a minor risk. Much less risky than going to Costco.

What really irked me, though, listening to our governor on the radio (maybe that was my problem), was the patronizing tone she had towards us, and how "she was doing this to protect all Michiganders". How about some personal responsibility? Maybe the "state" could start to propagandize us with the opposite of what they've done for the past 30+ years - build people up, encourage them to be self-reliant, be OK with some risk. Ugh, sorry this one touched a nerve the other day.

[moonshadow]

What really irked me, though, listening to our governor on the radio (maybe that was my problem), was the patronizing tone she had towards us, and how "she was doing this to protect all Michiganders". How about some personal responsibility? Maybe the "state" could start to propagandize us with the opposite of what they've done for the past 30+ years - build people up, encourage them to be self-reliant, be OK with some risk. Ugh, sorry this one touched a nerve the other day.

Patronizing... that's the word I was looking for this morning.

Anyway, yeah I understand what you mean, it seems we're all being somewhat patronized by our government.

It's the "we know what's best for you" tone. When in actuality they haven't got a clue as to what's going on.

On a side note, I almost retracted my religion statement earlier, not wanting to come off as some kind of atheist ass... it's not that, but too often it seems, in normal times, the religous body seems above the law and guidelines because... well... they're religious, and it seems federal and most, if not all state constitutions protect religious liberty above all other liberties.

Of course nobody is saying people can't practice or celebrate their religion, nor would I support such a mandate, but one does not need to assemble with a group to practice their faith. The prohibition is on assembly, not the religion itself.

Of course the freedom to assemble is also in the first amendment... so.. *shrugs*

Anyway, if the authorities allow assembly in a global pandemic strictly for religious reasons than they need to flat out decriminalize marijuana, and NOT tax it...

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Genesis 1:29

One halfway decent OT passage and everybody ignores it...

Hehehehe....

[Coder]

Of course nobody is saying people can't practice or celebrate their religion, nor would I support such a mandate, but one does not need to assemble with a group to practice their faith. The prohibition is on assembly, not the religion itself.

Of course the freedom to assemble is also in the first amendment... so.. *shrugs*

I heard someone on the radio put it best (and I'm misquoting) - "While some of the stay at home measures have questionable constitutional legality, religious leaders should understand that in a health crisis such as this, some accommodation to protect the welfare of the citizenry should be expected, which can include curtailing assembly rights." This was from a christian legal organization. I wish I could remember the exact quote because it was essentially saying - for the good of everyone, stay home - but I think a way that Christians could accept. And you are right - the state is not telling people not to practice - just not to assemble.

And I'm not singling out Christians - I'm sure other faiths/creeds/etc... are facing similar challenges. I just don't know enough about what they are doing to have an informed opinion.

Anyway, if the authorities allow assembly in a global pandemic strictly for religious reasons than they need to flat out decriminalize marijuana, and NOT tax it...

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Genesis 1:29

One halfway decent OT passage and everybody ignores it...

Hehehehe....

LOL

[kingfish]

These closures are typical ham-fisted State activities, and sometimes I wonder if they're not doing these sorts of idiotic things "just because they can". (The cops and politicians, of course, are exempt.)

Yes.
Y
...well...

..probably.

While I know the threat is real and we need to get the virus under control....

Come on, let's be straight... you know these law makers are enjoying "playing dictator" for a little while.

And the rest of the population will ignore just about every last warning, no matter how dire. I have a problem saying no to my wife (and she's a part of that), and we're about to go out shopping for a swing set to help with the kids emotional & physical health. And no, we don't have masks yet. The risks haven't sunk in for her, especially with me. I'm asthmatic and over 50, ans she's near 60.

The chances of this thing putting one or both of us in the hospital, if not the morgue has me more scared than when I read my blood pressure at 190/120 (meds are working it's back under control) or the diagnosis that got me a mohs procedure (1% probability of a metastatic return).
And my little hometown of 14,753, as of yesterday, logged 11 active cases, 5 recovered, and one fatality already. *sigh* Why wasn't the fireplace/patio store closed? Oh, yeah, construction supplies exemption.

[moonshadow]

I heard someone on the radio put it best (and I'm misquoting) - "While some of the stay at home measures have questionable constitutional legality, religious leaders should understand that in a health crisis such as this, some accommodation to protect the welfare of the citizenry should be expected, which can include curtailing assembly rights." This was from a christian legal organization. I wish I could remember the exact quote because it was essentially saying - for the good of everyone, stay home - but I think a way that Christians could accept. And you are right - the state is not telling people not to practice - just not to assemble.

And I'm not singling out Christians - I'm sure other faiths/creeds/etc... are facing similar challenges. I just don't know enough about what they are doing to have an informed opinion.

True, most religous people (all religions) are doing their part and abiding the rules. It's the same ones that normally like to make a stir over other situations. It's the "Kim Davis'es" out there, the ones that feel their faith somehow makes them more privileged than everybody else, however small a minority they may be, seem to make the most noise.

The chances of this thing putting one or both of us in the hospital, if not the morgue has me more scared than when I read my blood pressure at 190/120 (meds are working it's back under control) or the diagnosis that got me a mohs procedure (1% probability of a metastatic return).
And my little hometown of 14,753, as of yesterday, logged 11 active cases, 5 recovered, and one fatality already. *sigh* Why wasn't the fireplace/patio store closed? Oh, yeah, construction supplies exemption.

Do not misunderstand my sentiments kingfish. I encourage people to be good citizens and do as the authorities instruct for now, to hopefully get this disease under control.

However, a good citizen also keeps a watchful eye on their leaders to ensure they are making sensible calls. It is the duty of American citizens in particular to hold our government accountable for their actions.

It is not proper for authorities to frivolously mandate restrictions without proper explanations and reasoning to the general populace. We're entitled to that under a democratic society. Our leaders are public servants, not dictators, and they do need to be reminded from time to time of whom they serve. This goes for Trump, Pelosi, the 50 governors, right down the the local level.

We are not their subjects, we are their constituents.

[Jim]

However, a good citizen also keeps a watchful eye on their leaders to ensure they are making sensible calls. It is the duty of American citizens in particular to hold our government accountable for their actions.

It is not proper for authorities to frivolously mandate restrictions without proper explanations and reasoning to the general populace. We're entitled to that under a democratic society. Our leaders are public servants, not dictators, and they do need to be reminded from time to time of whom they serve. This goes for Trump, Pelosi, the 50 governors, right down the the local level.

We are not their subjects, we are their constituents.

Yes.
Have you noticed how a number of Inspectors General have been fired recently? (To stay apolitical, I won't mention by whom.)

[moonshadow]

Yes.
Have you noticed how a number of Inspectors General have been fired recently? (To stay apolitical, I won't mention by whom.)

Honestly that cabinet has such a revolving door I struggle to keep up with, and make sense of it.

The muddy water is just too thick. I've about given up on anything sensible coming from that office, and am just biding my time until sanity is back in control.

[Shilo]

I’ve just read about some ridiculous actions by certain police officers over here. One officer admonished a family for allowing their children to play in their own garden. Another suggested police might patrol supermarket aisles checking whether people’s purchases were necessary. They really know how to focus on the master criminals. ( Law and Order supermarket investigation unit). Thankfully the government has clarified that neither of these is actually against restrictions in place.
It makes me wonder about the quality of some of these officers. Maybe they could be redeployed to empty the trash as some firefighters have!

[crfriend]

Have you noticed how a number of Inspectors General have been fired recently?

This is down to the problems with the Oath of Office, which is sworn to the nation and the Constitution, not as a personal Oath of Loyalty to El Heffe. In extreme circumstances, the IG and his lieutenants may need to take El Heffe down if the Leader's misdeeds warrant such. And some folks actually take that seriously -- and of course those are the ones that get sacked.

[moonshadow]

Check this out:

https://www.wjhl.com/coronavirus/police ... -19-cases/

Town barricades senior apartment building for two weeks.

[kingfish]

Do not misunderstand my sentiments kingfish. I encourage people to be good citizens and do as the authorities instruct for now, to hopefully get this disease under control.

However, a good citizen also keeps a watchful eye on their leaders to ensure they are making sensible calls. It is the duty of American citizens in particular to hold our government accountable for their actions.

It is not proper for authorities to frivolously mandate restrictions without proper explanations and reasoning to the general populace. We're entitled to that under a democratic society. Our leaders are public servants, not dictators, and they do need to be reminded from time to time of whom they serve. This goes for Trump, Pelosi, the 50 governors, right down the the local level.

We are not their subjects, we are their constituents.

Actually that rant came from today's errand odyssey that included, (I'm pretty sure) the second walmart trip and 3rd grocery store trip this week, not to mention a visit to pick out a swing set for the kids running around my house at the moment. I'm kind of wound up (frustrated) by the frequent forays into random-encounter-rich environments by members of my household, with my beloved being the worst offender.

At least the cops aren't being put to keep people from moving around without documented need. And I did get to my local libation purveyor and retrieved some gin, tonic water, Rogue Dead guy ale, and my favorite hand-sanitizer active component, Everclear. Now all I have to do is find some aloe vera (or other gel based moisturizer) to mix it with.

One plug for locally owned supermarkets. The big corp brands around here still have empty TP and paper towel aisles. The still local chain, Market Basket, actually looked better stocked than before this crisis. The only thing they were still empty on were the antibacterial wipes, and certain germicidal cleaners. The same can't be said for the Shaw's market just down the street with a wiped out paper goods aisle. Walmart had limited stock on paper towels (and they weren't cheap) and still no TP.

[crfriend]

Actually that rant came from today's errand odyssey that included, (I'm pretty sure) the second walmart trip and 3rd grocery store trip this week, not to mention a visit to pick out a swing set for the kids running around my house at the moment. I'm kind of wound up (frustrated) by the frequent forays into random-encounter-rich environments by members of my household, with my beloved being the worst offender.

That sounds more like a bad case of "cabin fever" than reality, I've been "out and 'exposed'" precisely once this week, and that was for beer and a pizza this evening. I'll be "out and 'exposed'" once tomorrow for a "real" beer run, and another two weeks' worth of groceries. Then back into "house arrest".

I am not confident that the current regime is going to be lifted any time soon -- if, possibly, ever.

One plug for locally owned supermarkets. The big corp brands around here still have empty TP and paper towel aisles. The still local chain, Market Basket, actually looked better stocked than before this crisis.

I shall bear that in mind! Thanks for the tip!

[pelmut]

I am not confident that the current regime is going to be lifted any time soon -- if, possibly, ever.

The better the isolation, the sooner this will be brought under control.  Every time more people get infected because they went out for something non-essential or were careless, the lock-down period gets extended.

Once the proportion of immune people in the population is high enough (by recovery or death) we can return to something approaching normal but still with precautions.  As soon as a really effective vaccine can be produced and widely distributed, the worry is over -- until C 19 mutates or another one comes along.

[Coder]

I am not confident that the current regime is going to be lifted any time soon -- if, possibly, ever.

The better the isolation, the sooner this will be brought under control.  Every time more people get infected because they went out for something non-essential or were careless, the lock-down period gets extended.

Once the proportion of immune people in the population is high enough (by recovery or death) we can return to something approaching normal but still with precautions.  As soon as a really effective vaccine can be produced and widely distributed, the worry is over -- until C 19 mutates or another one comes along.

But with heavy social distancing, I don’t believe we will ever reach heard immunity. How do we do so?

To add to my question: we know this thing is easily spread, so I don’t think there is a chance we can isolate enough to just kill it off (unlike SARS and MERS). How do we ensure it spreads enough to build up herd immunity but not cause mass amounts of death? Let alone reinfecting areas through travel?