Political Chatter

[TheSkirtedMan]

She is blind and has been from birth but that has not stopped her from wing-walking, driving a car at nearly 100 mph on an airfield circuit and travelling to America, Australia, Nepal and Thailand. Somehow the event was very far away but is now getting so close.

I always have admiration and respect when I hear such as this about either gender. Despite being poles apart they appear well suited as a couple and I'm sure have many happy years ahead.

Have a good time in Jamaica.

[dillon]

So today is the big vote in Britain; or, as we have been calling it, "the belly-button election"; "innies" vs. "outies". NPR characterized the "innies" as younger, college-educated, living in large cities, and who usually vote for Labor. The "outies" are typically over 60, vote for Conservatives, live outside big cities, and likely don't have higher education; three of the four characteristics on either side define the probability of your vote. So, basically, if the "outies" were American, they would be Trump supporters.

The most interesting issue raised was the number of British retirees living abroad, in Spain, Portugal, Greece and other sunny places. They would lose their EU healthcare benefits, plus the value of their property abroad would be expected to plummet, should many find it necessary to return to the UK. Once EU protections are gone, I wonder how many European-market- dependent businesses will relocate to Greece or Spain or elsewhere to maintain their benefits in the EU market? And perhaps to take advantage of cheaper labor? Interesting dilemma you have there.

I think the best outcome would be 50.5% voting to remain; that would make it clear to the EU that reforms are needed, lest the next vote should swing the other way... I am not unsympathetic to your complaints with the EU; it clearly overreaches in the power it wields. But need you shoot yourselves in your figurative foot to make the point?

[Sinned]

I'm an outy, over 60, but degree educated, Conservative by inclination but inclined not to support the current mob who do NOT support true conservative traditions, definitely not a Labour supporter, live on the outskirts of a City, York, which could not be considered large but is very important historically and culturally and am definitely NOT a Trump supporter, preferring not to say what I think of him. So I fit the type only partly. The young probably favour in because they have known nothing else and the unknown is always something to at least be wary of.

Retiring abroad in Europe was always going to be a risk with unfamiliar legal, political and cultural differences. Many cases of retirees being ripped off with property purchases which turned out not to be legal in terms of fraudulent building permissions even when the local council granted permission it was later overturned by national and the houses demolished without compensation. Property prices have already gone through the floor and I doubt that there are many takers from here now. Pensions will still be paid as they come from the British economy and in places like Greece and Spain healthcare probably already has to be paid for privately. Already our healthcare cards supposedly granting free emergency care in Spain are regularly refused and care paid for, in contravention of EU rulings.

As for relocation of businesses, well, we'll just have to wait and see but to abandon such a large and relatively stable economy for such a stagnant one as Europe's .... Financial changes in the pipeline from the EU have brought protests from the Financial Sector in London with such as HSBC threatening to move their base from London to such as Hong Kong.

Personally I think a close vote as you have indicated would be the WORST result ever as it would be so inconclusive. Even a 55/45 split would be horrible. That there is a huge feeling against the EU is a problem even if we vote to remain but I doubt if it will lead to any reforms and the EU hierarchy couldn't give a sh_t about what we in Britain think. That has been made plain time and time again. Sometimes one has to stand up for what one believes in even to the extent of shooting oneself in the foot. With closer political integration on the agenda do we make a stand now or just capitulate, become just another semi-autonomous region or have to face up to defying the political integration at some other point in the future when national boundaries become even more blurred.

[Ray]

I'm not sure a referendum was ever a good idea. With something of this magnitude, most of the population simply do not have the mental capacity to make a valid judgement. We trust that to our democratically elected government. Maybe if we banned readers of the Sun, the Mirror, the Daily Wail and the Express, from voting, that would allay concerns of mindless simpletons being let loose on driving the direction of the country

Ray

[Ray]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/22/growing ... ntry-back/

This is amusing (note; contains mild profanity)

[dillon]

I'm not sure a referendum was ever a good idea. With something of this magnitude, most of the population simply do not have the mental capacity to make a valid judgement. We trust that to our democratically elected government. Maybe if we banned readers of the Sun, the Mirror, the Daily Wail and the Express, from voting, that would allay concerns of mindless simpletons being let loose on driving the direction of the country

Ray

Right. I don't see a win for the PM whichever way the vote goes. If the vote is OUT, he is done for. And even if it is close to stay in, it has weakened his hand and that doesn't bode well, especially on the heels of the Scotland vote. If Britain leaves, it will be interesting to see if Scottish independence gets resurrected. We should get results shortly.

[Grok]

Came across a web site...which stated that the French government would seek to punish the British.

To make an example of Britain...to prevent a stampede out of the EU.

[Grok]

That there is a huge feeling against the EU is a problem even if we vote to remain but I doubt if it will lead to any reforms and the EU hierarchy couldn't give a sh_t about what we in Britain think. That has been made plain time and time again. .

The EU has been described as an eccentric empire, ruled by mandarins.

[Sinned]

Well having been up most of the night the country has finally voted to leave the EU by 58%/42% and the difference between the outs and the ins is about 1.1 million and as I write only need 37665 votes to win with several regions still to come in. Turnout of about 72%. Scotland and Northern Ireland have voted to remain so talks of Irish unification and another Scottish referendum have been mentioned. Apparently there was no plan B. The fallout begins ....

Errata: Having been up all night as Stevie says I got the figures wrong and it should be 52/48. Tiredness, I suppose.

[Stevie D]

Well having been up most of the night the country has finally voted to leave the EU by 58/42 and the difference between the outs and the ins is about 1.1 million and as I write only need 37665 votes to win with several regions still to come in. Turnout of about 74. Scotland and Northern Ireland have voted to remain so talks of Irish unification and another Scottish referendum have been mentioned. Apparently there was no plan B. The fallout begins ....

Actually the figures are 52% leave and 48% remain. I think you got the digits transposed. Nevertheless it's still a vote for leave, albeit by a pretty small margin. The Pound sterling has taken a huge drop, and shares are forecast to be down 8% or more when the markets open in an hour or so. We are now in uncharted territory and I cannot see the outcome as being anything but poor in the short to medium term. Basically the UK economy is now headed into serious recession and I fear one of the the next steps will be the break-up of the United Kingdom.

No doubt many people are celebrating this result but for me it seems like suicidal madness has taken hold of the country. Yes - it's the democratic process in action and we have to respect and accept the result. But at what price? We shall see.

[Sinned]

Stevie, you are predicting a recession on minimum evidence but much opinion. The drops are predictable short term but recession, what will be will be. I tend to be optimistic and I could be wrong because events are outside my control, confidence will return once the shock has passed and who bought 3000 quids worth of dollars yesterday along with my daughter and her partner before the fall

[Disaffected.citizen]

Nobody can say for certain what will befall the UK as a result of the vote to leave; however the financial markets do not like the uncertainty of the short term future, as evidenced by the fall in the £Sterling and the stock market. So what will be the short term effects?

1. As the £ has fallen so significantly, fuel on the garage forecourts will rise. I expect £1.20/litre (up from £1.08/litre) within the week and maybe higher.

2. Imports will be more expensive. We import more than we export.

3. To shore up the £, interest rates will rise; the Bank of England will have no option.

4. As interest rates rise, mortgage affordability will decline. Our property prices haven't realigned to where they should have been after the 2008 financial crisis.

Those are just a few of my predictions. We have a period of instability between now, following David Cameron's resignation (although I'm not a Conservative, I think he is actually a fairly decent politician and man) whilst the Conservatives decide on whether or not Boris can lead them and the country. Until October, things will be unsteady.

I'm not actually surprised by the result, and respect the decision of the country. But those who think we will take full control will soon find out the reality!

I'm now going put some money on The Donald for President; sorry to our U.S. cousins, but I've entered a surreal world, akin to following a white rabbit!

[dillon]

I'm an outy, over 60, but degree educated, Conservative by inclination but inclined not to support the current mob who do NOT support true conservative traditions, definitely not a Labour supporter, live on the outskirts of a City, York, which could not be considered large but is very important historically and culturally and am definitely NOT a Trump supporter, preferring not to say what I think of him.

I don't know, Dennis, but if Boris Johnson ends up replacing Cameron, it sort of looks like you DID cast a vote for Trump! LOL!!

boris and the donald.jpg

[crfriend]

After seeing that side-by-side expose of The Donald and Boris Johnson why do I feel the need to drop acid and watch Monty Python reruns for the next 18 hours?

Dammit, I've been through one waking nightmare in the past 12 months. Why am I being subjected to another?

[skirtedMarine]

Socialism, as a be all and end all, is doomed to failure because of human nature -- and most especially the nature of the most competitive and greedy. But without some tenets of Socialism, what we're left with is Laissez-faire Capitalism which is also a failure -- for precisely the same reason. A balance needs to be struck to allow those who work hardest to enjoy the fruits of their labours and to also keep the most competitive and greedy from running rough-shod over the rest of the populace. Some level of altruism is critical to a society's survival; without that, the society is doomed to failure -- frequently spectacularly (violent and bloody revolutions are one such spectacle, but so is overt violent dominance by the power elite against the vast mass of citizenry). Russia, and, arguably the USA now, both exhibit that lack of empathy and altruism, and both (functionally-identical) systems are being gamed for the sole benefit of the power-elite and to the detriment (as "collateral damage") of the populace as a whole.

At issue are not the concepts of either Socialism or Capitalism, it's the application of the extreme forms of either because, unrestrained, both systems tend to produce really dreadful results for the overwhelming bulk of the populations living under them. "Trickle-down economics" (Laissez-faire Capitalism) has demonstrably been proved a failure in the USA, and this can be verified by any number of statistical means. But Central-Command Economies (dogmatic Socialist states) run into the same sorts of problems as they're rather easier to game than free-for-all Capitalism. The key is restraint and regulation to at least keep the level of outright exploitation within tolerable levels. Recall that humans -- and some other animals -- form societies for a reason, and a social structure is one of the few things that separates humans from, say, chimpanzees. A fully-functioning society is able to grow and do things vastly better than a horde of individual actors. We need to move beyond "to the victor go all the spoils" which, put crassly, is little more than the law of the jungle. We're headed in the wrong direction.

I love your well stated Indoctrinated mental masterbation Carl,
Stand for something! Mercy, Theres Terrorists creaping across Our boarders! And all the left can exclaim is that WE need more gun control!