Company dress code

[moonshadow]

That may be so in the UK, but not at all in my locality or avocation. There are no stated rules against my wearing a skirt or kilt to work, but I know my client base very well; very rural, very traditional, and very religiously fundamentalist. It would destroy my credibility and professional functionality to go before these people dressed in a way that surprised them or drew attention from my mission or the problems I am there to address. Plus I really don't care to explain myself to everyone; 90% of these folks just wouldn't understand. Please don't try to tell me that I don't yet know that. I have twenty years of experience with them. They are good people, but I don't intend to be a skirt ambassador for people whose perceptions just can't handle it. What I wear on my own time is my business, however, and our social paths seldom cross.

As it is up this way. There are certain professions where I can see it not being a problem, such as liberal book stores, perhaps some shops that would be located in malls, maybe a very select few corporate settings, but generally, skirts are still a no go for men in the work place in the "land of the free".

What you describe also echoes my own thoughts as I become more and more accustomed to wearing a skirt in my own time. While I obviously don't wear them while on the clock, I have been known to wear them in the stores on my own time while shopping. So far I've worn the skirts in my home store at Damascus many times, Abingdon once or twice, and I also stopped at one of our Bristol VA stores with a skirt on to grab a few things. It hasn't happened yet, but eventually another corporate employee, a district manager, or someone who otherwise has some clout with the company is going to see me in them, if not in the stores then certainly out and about (as we all live in the same region). And I've often wondered what the company reaction to this would be, even though I only do this in my own time.

Granted, I don't expect a termination from my present job, as I'm good at what I do, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let me go for something so minor that I only do in my free time, however I've often wondered how it might effect the possibility of my advancement in the company. They say I'm being groomed to take over for my boss when he retires.... however.... they... don't know that I wear skirts in my off time. And ... they... are known to be quite traditional.

Never the less, I continue to wear my skirt. Because my free time is just that FREE time!

But never the less, this is the primary reason why I avoid using my legal name and the name of my company in the same sentence online as I don't want it to become searchable that A____ works at F____. I don't mind if someone connects the dots, I just don't want google doing it!

Hilariously, the dress-code for the place that I worked at in the 1980s (which had all of the above hazards and then some) dictated a neck-tie -- when even the operators' manuals discouraged the wearing of such things around some of this kit even if the covers were all on the machines! Go figure. (Most of us wore our ties tucked in; if I knew it was going to be a filthy day, I'd wear a black shirt and a bow-tie.

The meat dept managers often wear neck ties, and I wonder how it would "go down" (pardon the pun) if one those things got sucked into a meat cuber. Better hope it's a clip on! And for those who don't know, a motorized commercial meat cuber (tenderizer) is a WICKED looking machine with two rotating drums with hundreds of little surgical stainless knives rotating inward. It is the LAST place you want to get something caught in. Just ask the poor associate who last year got his hand caught in one. He'll probably never have the use of that particular hand again!

[moonshadow]

What would a woman wear in those circumstances? It is just a matter of common sense to dress appropriately.

That question raised an interesting point. As women are often permitted to wear skirts (for religious reasons) even in areas where skirts are generally not permitted. As to my knowledge it's never happened, at least from my experience, but I wonder what would happen if a Pentecostal woman (who generally ALWAYS wear skirts) applied to be in maintenance and cited her religious rights as justification to wear a skirt on the job. Even though it is clearly unsafe to do so.

Although I'm not a legal expert, I am under the assumption that safety always takes priority of religion on the job. So I'd say she'd ever have to wear pants or choose another profession.

Safety issues aside, maybe we should start a Judeo-Christian denomination where men are required to wear unbifurcated garments (just like Jesus and Moses), then we could cite OUR religious freedom to wear skirts on the job, as my understanding is that when safety isn't an issue, religious conviction on the job is protected. Food for thought.... and of course, I'm joking! I know that would fly like an anvil in the good ole U S of A.

r.m.anderson mentioned "CODE", well, code's were meant to be cracked! It's all about finding the loopholes!

[crfriend]

As women are often permitted to wear skirts (for religious reasons) even in areas where skirts are generally not permitted. As to my knowledge it's never happened, at least from my experience, but I wonder what would happen if a Pentecostal woman (who generally ALWAYS wear skirts) applied to be in maintenance and cited her religious rights as justification to wear a skirt on the job. Even though it is clearly unsafe to do so.

I suspect that would be down to local interpretation of law and would likely ignore the safety aspect. Probably a court would rule in favour of "religion", especially where it involves both women and religion.

Recall that "religion" is invoked for many things, up to and including the denial of medical treatment to minor children, some of whom go on to die horrible deaths from such treatable things as intestinal blockages. There is always a stink when that happens -- and demands that the rules be changed -- but the rules never change because nobody is willing to face the topic of "religion" head-on and likely never will. Recall that we are going backwards at the moment as a society, not forwards.

Although I'm not a legal expert, I am under the assumption that safety always takes priority of religion on the job. So I'd say she'd ever have to wear pants or choose another profession.

"Safety" is something that's generally left to the "common sense" of individuals, and sometimes individuals get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. When it goes wrong, it usually leads the government into enacting various things to "ensure safety" which they then grant exceptions to on the basis of religion. Laws do not apply to all equally in the USA.

in this case, I'd posit that the very old adage of, "Be careful of what you wish for -- you might get it!" holds. A demand for "clothing equality" might well result in a trousers-only stricture thereby ruling skirts out entirely. I think it best to approach the matter tactfully, tastefully, and on one's free time unless he's got an employer -- and hierarchy -- well-known for open minds and forward-thinking. (This rules out entire swathes of the USA.)

[moonshadow]

I suspect that would be down to local interpretation of law and would likely ignore the safety aspect. Probably a court would rule in favour of "religion", especially where it involves both women and religion.

Recall that "religion" is invoked for many things, up to and including the denial of medical treatment to minor children, some of whom go on to die horrible deaths from such treatable things as intestinal blockages. There is always a stink when that happens -- and demands that the rules be changed -- but the rules never change because nobody is willing to face the topic of "religion" head-on and likely never will. Recall that we are going backwards at the moment as a society, not forwards.

"Safety" is something that's generally left to the "common sense" of individuals, and sometimes individuals get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. When it goes wrong, it usually leads the government into enacting various things to "ensure safety" which they then grant exceptions to on the basis of religion. Laws do not apply to all equally in the USA.

This is true, however I'd like to share a few thoughts on the current trend of bigotry in the U.S., if you'll pardon me for going off topic for a bit.

I think that generally speaking, we (the U.S.) are generally about 30 years behind the European nations in regards to social freedom. I also think that we have the Europeans to thank for our recent advancements in open mindedness and tolerance in general. Just as in the civil rights movement in the 60's there was an enormous push back from the "traditional right". Some progressives might have thought that we as a nation were going backward due to all of the hatred and bigotry especially in the south.

Then there was about 30 years quiet for the most part where nothing major happened in regards to civil rights, other than the pendulum swinging FAR left for the feminist. These days it seems they can do no wrong, and there is a general "man hating" atmosphere here in the states that I feel is complicating our goal to be allowed to wear skirts professionally.

There is a lot going on in our nation today, a lot that has the traditional right feeling very threatened. We are on the last push of civil rights for blacks. Now police are having to forget the old practice of "shoot now, ask questions later". Hopefully this will also apply to cop on white brutality (which does exist, it's just not sensationalized on the news), the few areas where woman fell behind men (pay, advancement, etc) are quickly being remedied, and finally there is the homosexual rights movement.

Now I know that many of us here are not homosexual, however I do feel this particular movement is the one that most parallels our movement, as generally society will treat us the same. Whereas I feel once homosexual freedom is fully realized and accepted in our nation, then men wearing skirts will also be equally acceptable.

Which is not to say that there won't be pockets of backward prejudice here and there. Just as racism is alive and well in various pockets all over the nation. But lets just call a spade a spade.... 40 years ago it was unheard of for a black man/woman to date a white man/woman, and illegal in many states for them to marry. Perhaps 40 years from now, seeing a man in a skirt will be just as commonplace as an interracial couple today. Will there still be snares? Certainly. My father still to this day rants when he witnesses an interracial couple, but that generation is slowly dieing off.

And as the old song goes from Crosby Stills and Nash, "teach your children well"...

ahem....

You, who are on the road must have a code that you can live by.
And so become yourself because the past is just a good bye.
Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix, the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

And you, of the tender years can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth, they seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well, their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix,the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

So I think that the reason we are seeing such a conservative push back now is because our nation is on the brink of becoming a fully "liberal" nation. And frankly it scares the hell out of the traditionalist. Patience, I am hopeful that the future will be bright! The most important thing I think for us to do is to stick together! United we stand divided we fall! If this "stickies" are any indication here on this board it is that in years past, there have been some nasty brawls here at the cafe. Aside from our petty differences we must stand together on the core idea of men being allowed the freedom to choose their wardrobe! Our very survival depends on it, because make no mistake, there is a VAST army of traditionalist that are lobbying daily to shut us down!

[moonshadow]

Well... got called out..... its Halloween and many associates are wearing their costumes......

Should have worn one if my dresses. HA!

When they ask me.... "what are you supposed to be?"

I would just reply "FABULOUS!"

Nah.... just carrying on. I am wearing a regular t shirt with my work pants. To hell with the dress code! Its Halloween for Gods sake and Im working on my day off......