Why do women put up with men who look like slobs

alexthebird · Post by **alexthebird** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:29 pm

I've just come back from a nice dinner at a sidewalk restaurant (dressed in knee length black cotton skirt, black sandals, and a white linen shirt with black embroidered floral designs alongside the buttons) and had the opportunity to watch dozens of couples walk by.

I live in Philadelphia, a large, working class American city and I live in a vibrant area with lots of young, educated people. I had the opportunity to look at dozens of young couples walking by while I had dinner and I was puzzled. While nobody seemed to demonstrate any cutting edge fashion sense, the women dressed in clothes that fit and were clean. There was obviously some thought put into layers of T-shirts, the choice of accessories, which boots/shoes were matched with particular choice of trousers, etc.

On the other hand, the men all looked like slobs. T-shirts that had been laundered 6,000 times (or maybe not), everything was too large, nothing matched, no accessories, and the hair/beard thing looked universally awful.

I could see and appreciate every curve of every woman. I couldn't see a blessed thing that accentuated anything on any of the men.

Here's my question to Emerald Witch, Sapphire, Quiet Mouse and anyone else who might be interested.

Why do women put up with this?

BrotherTailor · Post by **BrotherTailor** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:05 am

I'm really not sure what women are looking "at" when they give a guy the "once over" like men do women. I really don't know, I've never heard a woman talk about it. So perhaps the whole visual appeal angle that is so crucial for men is just not there for women?

Not a good answer, but its all I've got.

btw I'm well into my third decade and to my knowledge have not had a woman show any interest in me from simply an exterior appraisal in passing. So whatever I've got, they ain't buying

Peter v · Post by **Peter v** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:57 am

Well I'm a man, and not interested in men themselves, but now that i wear skirts, I do pay much more attention to how to dress, and I agree with you, Alexthebird, even why those women let their men go out on the street dressed like that, I don't understand. There's something wrong there somewhere. That sounds like casual around the house, into the car mow the lawn clothing, not go out dress. Maybe the women have given up trying to educate those men in how to look good.

Peter v.

sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:22 am

Ah, Philadelphia! I lived there a long time ago, once upon a time in my wildest dreams: The Academy of Music, Sansom Street, Headhouse Square, Society Hill, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, The Franklin Institute, the zoo, Rittenhouse Square, The Philadelphia Folk Festiival, The Second Fret, The Main Point, David Bromberg and World Control Studios, the Northeast, South Street and a leisurely drive north along the Delaware to Washington Crossing State Park, Bowman's Hill Wildflower Preserve and New Hope, Rice's Market, Bucks County Vineyards, Peddlars Village and the Mercer Museum.

Across the Delaware in the New Jersey side of the Park is where my brother and I seriously bruised ourselves sledding down the bluffs and trying to jump a stream feeding into the Delaware to see who could get farthest across the stream without smahing into a tree, landing in the Delaware or landing nose down feet up in the stream. That same sled is still on my front porch.

Thank you, thank you for the memories!!!!

As to the question at hand... Some women put up with abuse. They need counseling and a support system to help them get out.

Wooba Gooba with the green teeth with greasy unkept hair with small animals nesting within, beards that smell of beer and decaying food and threadbare clothing that they wear day in and day out are {you fill in the blanks}

Maybe the Wooba Goobas should be introduced to skirt wearing

What part of Philly are you in?

r1g0r · Post by **r1g0r** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:08 am

#1:
men are visually stimulated in regards to sex. this has been established for years by all parties, and is why all lingerie is aimed at men's eyes and porn is also.

#2:
many women find a guy that appeals to them and hope to change him into their "ideal". this usually fails, and the woman is left stuck with a guy she never was able to groom.

just my $.02

Emerald Witch · Post by **Emerald Witch** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:36 pm

I live near Seattle, the home of Grunge. Worse yet, I live in Kitsap county, in a backwater community peopled by college kids, welfare moms and sailors. Fashion isn't a high priority here. I'm almost considered an oddity as a WOMAN who chooses to wear makeup and carefully coordinated shoes/clothing/jewelery/etc.

Don't get me wrong, folks do appreciate it, and compliment me all the time, but they look at me funny. It's like they think I'm dressing for a ball or something, when I just think I'm being "neat and tidy".

So asking me why guys dress sloppy while girls dress well rather goes over my head. Around here, girls might dress well when they're about sixteen-to-twenty when they're quite slim and naturally beautiful and fresh and young, but then they tend to start having babies and getting old and dowdy and tired all the time. Drugs are rampant. Nobody seems to care about themselves.

But I'm still not answering the question, am I?

Why would women in general accept sloppiness in men more than in themselves? Because women are using their looks to try to win a man. They want the man to provide for them, so they don't care how HE looks. He's just a meal ticket.

Disgusting, eh?

(sigh) I wish I could instill a sense of self-worth in everybody and make them all just WAKE UP and realize it's better to respect and care for yourself. I wish people could all know they didn't have to settle for just whomever came along that would give them a glance. So many girls think they are nothing without a guy to define them, and will do anything to be with a guy -- ANY guy. They don't have any sense of independent self at all. That's why you see them on those stupid shows like Maury Povich and Jerry Springer, screaming at their unfaithful lovers, yet taking them back again and again. They have no choice. They don't know what else to do. It's either this loser, or some other loser just like them.

"No other man has been knocking on the door since the last Jerry Springer show... so I guess I'll take the old guy back again... What choice is there?"

That's why ladies don't make their men dress nicer. They're afraid if they criticized their attire, the guy would get offended and leave for the other gal down the block who "wasn't so picky". A woman who thinks like that is a gal who lives in real fear of her own worthlessness.

Me though, if any man thought he was good enough to date me and didn't know how to keep himself well-groomed, he could just show himself the door and please don't let it slam on the way out. I'd give him a couple hints, and a few chances to shape up, sure. I wouldn't throw away a good man because he had a few little quirks. But if he was a real slob and refused to respect me by at least putting on clean clothes and TRYING to look decent, I just don't have time for that. There are too many nice guys in the world to waste time on a disrespectful slob.

God, it's nice to know you can make it on your own!

sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:20 pm

Emerald Witch wrote:

A woman who thinks like that is a gal who lives in real fear of her own worthlessness.

And that's why she needs counselling and a support system to get back on her feet.

alexthebird · Post by **alexthebird** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:12 am

sapphire wrote:...

As to the question at hand... Some women put up with abuse. They need counseling and a support system to help them get out.

Wooba Gooba with the green teeth with greasy unkept hair with small animals nesting within, beards that smell of beer and decaying food and threadbare clothing that they wear day in and day out are {you fill in the blanks}

Maybe the Wooba Goobas should be introduced to skirt wearing

What part of Philly are you in?

In reverse order of importance, I was floored by your reference to Wooba Gooba with the green teeth! I lived in Boston until 2002, when I moved to Philly and used to listen to Peter Wolf (later with the J Geils Band) on WBCN, the original Woofa Goofa (note proper spelling!) with the green teeth. Talk about your memories!

I live about two blocks northeast of Italian Market.

Finally, I think what I'm noticing may ultimately lead to abuse and self-denigration, but I think my question was simpler. Why do women put so much effort into making themselves look attractive (or at least what they think is attractive) and then settle for men who don't give their grooming or clothing or manners any thought at all? Are the pickings for men so slim that anything with the proper equipment will do?

BrotherTailor · Post by **BrotherTailor** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:38 am

alexthebird,

Maybe women just like to have a "project" they're working on?

It's not a good idea to make character judgements strictly on exterior apparel...whether male or female. I know we all tend to do it, but it can be misleading. Careless dressers are often nice folks who really don't care, and or, don't know how to choose an outfit that works for them.

Really, where I live, women are just as guilty of poor clothing choices as men are. Unless you are into lowrise jeans, and a layered look with about three or four tight t shirts and so forth one on top of the other stretched way down to their hips or lower (likely to account for the fact that that the jeans stop midway up the hip). It just amazes me that this is almost universal now for younger women. I've seen a few older women digging out their old high waisted jeans and this is at least partial relief.

If I were a woman I'd be an adamant dress and skirt wearer...weather be damned... and hats...love those hats...yes long skirts, petticoats, corsets, broad brimmed hats and bonnets, leather granny boots...I see it now

sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:13 am

I was remended today of a man I knew in the early state of my career. He was a genious and also a mentor. His sense of style was a couple of pair ot black trousers and several dozen white shirt. He's wear a different white shirt everyday and then throw the shirt in the closet. When he ran out of clean white shirts, he's take the least soiled white shirt and wear it. And so it went until even he could not take it any more. Hhe'd take his large pile to clothing to the cleaners and have his shirts done and then the cycle would start all over again.

He would not wear shoes indoors and would usuall lie on the floor with his feet up on the wall.

He was slobby and didn't care - he lived an alternate universe where finding the weakneses of operating systems, computer network secirity holes was his realm. This was after the internet was barely out of diapers and the world wide web had not been thought of.

We al loved him and all mourned when he died of cancer.

This was just a person from some other digial dimension, sent to illuminate us earthings. of the coming wonders of the digital age

Website · Post by **crfriend** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:45 pm

Maybe women just like to have a "project" they're working on?

Unfortunately, that's usually a recipe for failure. Humans, be they men or women, don't usually take well to attempts to "mould them into something they're not" and tend to rebel against such efforts. If an individual genuinely recognises a need (or desire) for change, they'll willingly accept tips and advice, but unwelcome attempts are just that -- unwelcome -- and, if pushed hard enough, can destroy (or at the very least, sour) relationships.

It's not a good idea to make character judgements strictly on exterior apparel...whether male or female. I know we all tend to do it, but it can be misleading. Careless dressers are often nice folks who really don't care, and or, don't know how to choose an outfit that works for them.

Yes, this is the old "Don't judge a book by its cover" adage, and it actually works pretty well, although sometimes the "cover" can be a bit hard to look beyond. I think we've all got examples of that.

The tendency towards sloppiness, I think, is exacerbated by the limits of what's "acceptable" to society. For years (and I mean a goodly chunk of my life), I really didn't give a hoot about my outward appearance because the choices of what there was to cover my sorry carcass were so limited. Now, however, I'm beginning to actually pay some attention to what I look like because I'm happier with the newfound choices I have. (I think Sapphire will back me on this one.)

Unless you are into lowrise jeans, and a layered look with about three or four tight t shirts and so forth one on top of the other stretched way down to their hips or lower (likely to account for the fact that that the jeans stop midway up the hip).

Would some kind soul please tell me where that "style" originated? Personally, I think it's just awful. It looks childish at best, and slovenly at worst. This goes beyond "not caring" (which is where men usually sit); this is actively making onesself look foolish. Stopping the trouser at the hip is a guaranteed way to make the wearer look like she has huge hips, and most women try to minimise things that look huge (Dolly Parton excepted); I dislike jeans, but the higher-waisted ones do look better than the "low-riders".

BrotherTailor · Post by **BrotherTailor** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:00 pm

Would some kind soul please tell me where that "style" originated? Personally, I think it's just awful. It looks childish at best, and slovenly at worst. This goes beyond "not caring" (which is where men usually sit); this is actively making onesself look foolish. Stopping the trouser at the hip is a guaranteed way to make the wearer look like she has huge hips, and most women try to minimise things that look huge
quote by crfriend
---------------------------
crfriend, I think it is just not knowing...combine with the herd instinct.

I make no claim to fashion genius, but the basic fashion foundation is "line". Lines can be vertical, horizontal, diagonal, and any of these can be straight or curved. Vertical lines are slimming/heightening, horizontal lines are widening/shortening, curved lines are softening. That is how I use them anyhow. The idea of having a waistline terminate precisely at mid hip with a wide studded belt with fat rolling over is violating every rule. But if it is "the fashion" amongst her peers, by all means she must follow blindly...At least the tight tops pulled way down cover the belt line although they do nothing for the rolls. Muffintops are easy to get rid of...wear clothing that fits on the natural waist. Really all women I see have enough flesh on their hips that even a moderately tight waistband will force them into muffintop mode if it hits at the apex. Its just the way we are made as people except for the few stick women who need counselling... I have no idea what designer first came out with low rise pants...they've made a bundle. Every man I know detests the way women look in them.

SkirtDude · Post by **SkirtDude** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:26 pm

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sapphire · Post by **sapphire** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:37 pm

As far as I can recall, hip-huggers were one of the bastard child fashions born of the sexual revolution of the 1960s. They were usually worn to expose part of the belly and were not as extreme as todays examples.

All this came about in the era of Twiggy and the genesis of the slab sided look.

I recall, at the time making a hipster wrap around mini skirt and a tie front short blouse.

However, the hipsters at the time were only low enough to ride at the top of the hip and show off a very trim waist.

ChrisM · Post by **ChrisM** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:18 pm

Hello Em: Funny that, we just missed each other. We have lived in Kitsap County for the past ten years (East Bremerton & Silverdale) but have just moved to Orcas Island. My mother in law runs one of the antique malls in downtown Port Orchard.

I have worn my skirts in various shops in Silverdale, and on many a ride on the airporter to SeaTac (see the oft-repeated comments here about the comfort of skirts for travel.)

Errr...the point of this message? Well, none really. Just a sort of "hi there neighbor" greeting.

Chris