a colossal act of self-denial verging on self-mutilation

[Charlie]

This quote "a colossal act of self-denial verging on self-mutilation" comes from the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6613861.stm
which is an article reporting a debate in which America is allowed to continue existing. It has nothing whatsoever to do with skirts, but the quote could equally be applied to men who only ever wear trousers

Charlie

[Ray]

I cannot take this article seriously. It contains several fundamental flaws. To suggest that the US defeated the English Crown is crass stupidity; everyone knows that subsequent to 1603, the crown was the BRITISH crown. To make such a fundamendal flaw in the flow of narrative casts doubts on the remainder, and indeed on the veracity of the author.

So there.

[Since1982]

Semantics aside, the author probably didn't do much research before publishing that. Whether it's the English crown or the British crown is just semantics. The country of England resides in the British Isles. If it really is the British crown, then I suppose it rules all countries on any of the British Isles. Gee, I thought Scotland and Ireland and maybe Wales ruled themselves. Was I wrong?

[Departed Member]

Semantics? It's now over 400 years since the "English" crown was 'laid to rest', for goodness sake! In essence, England came under the rule of the "Scottish" crown - the Act of Union, hence "United Kingdom". The recent, excessively expensive tiers of (local) government introduced into Scotland & Wales were put there to establish division between the inhabitants of the UK - "Divide & Conquer"!

Back to the issue, an excellent quote lifted from a very moribund article - thanks, Charlie!!!!!

[crfriend]

Semantics? It's now over 400 years since the "English" crown was 'laid to rest', for goodness sake! In essence, England came under the rule of the "Scottish" crown - the Act of Union, hence "United Kingdom".

Making matters worse, it's been, I believe, several hundred years since there's actually been anybody with Welsh/English/Scottish (order at random) blood on the British (formerly English) throne. It's been Germans for the past hundred or so, and before that there was a good long stretch with French "Kings of England"!

Back to the issue, an excellent quote lifted from a very moribund article - thanks, Charlie!!!!!

Yes -- that was a masterful use of the quote!

[imadube]

I do not apologize if the following is found offensive. Because the meer act of the debate that took place is freaking offensive and arrogant in it's self.
Who do those folks think they are? Sure in the long dead past the Monarchy allowed people to migrate to the New World ONLY because at the time it spread the Emipres holdings. However, there was a War of Independance that took the right of ANY European Monarchy or Governments from having a say in American Affairs.
So what if anyone in ANY other country decides America needs to disban, fall away, or otherwise stop to be, WE ARE HERE TO STAY.
So, anyone with the guts to tells us that they voted to do away with America - let them freaking try - we fought and died for this place several times and WILL HAPPILY DO IT AGAIN.
NO ONE IN ANY OTHER REALM OF THIS WORLD HAS A RIGHT TO EVEN CONSIDER THE VOTE.
That article is just the kind of Euro Arrogance I have mentioned before.
Take offense, too damned bad, the arrogance of the debate happening OFFENDED ME TO THE CORE.

[AMM]

Take offense, too damned bad, the arrogance of the debate happening OFFENDED ME TO THE CORE.

Maybe I'm getting too old, but it was hard for me to work up any blood pressure over this.

There are just so many arrogant, outrageous, and offensive things going on in this world, I've had to ration my spleen and restrict my outrage to the very worst offenses. And this one doesn't make the top 10, or even the top 100.

There aren't even any dead bodies. Like the New York City cop said to my cousin and cousin-in-law when they reported getting beaten up by a bunch of toughs, I say: "where's the blood?"

And besides, some "offenses" are best just laughed at.[*]

Obligatory skirt-related material: like when you (or anybody) accidentally (or maybe not so accidentally) shows what's on under the skirt or kilt.

-- AMM

[*] Which may have been the point of the debate in the first place.

[imadube]

I to allow alot to slip by, but in this country today we are so diverse that we are in danger of loosing our national identity. Look at how people put so much importance on what's new in Europe and other countries. We are losing the heart of our belief system, language, and self indenties. Ever where you look it's not about being American any more. Can you speak Spanish? What does the EU think the value of OUR money is? Our basic trouble with gas prices is all about greed, just because the OPEC countries want so much a barrel, even the U.S. based oil will cost just as much. This country has too long been accomadating the rest of the world and we are lost as a country self governed of our own ideas. So when we allow others to dictate to us what we do, how we live, or how much we are worth then we step back in time and become slaves to others wills.
America was not founded for this.


BTW - Once during a military delpoyment in Afganistan, a group of a units higher ranking members had a talk about Patriotic people, well of the 6 or so people I was told there all agreed that I, at the time Staff Sergeant U.S. Army, was the most Patriotic person they knew. In fact, it is true to the point that I mangaed to be THE Tennessee motor vehicle owner with "PATRIOT" as my offical number plate on my (of coarse) JEEP.

[Sasquatch]

Let me first thank you for your service to the country. I didn't serve in the Armed Forces, having come of age just at the time when people were being lifted from the roof of our embassy in Saigon, and helicopters were being shoved off the deck of an aircraft carrier to make room for evacuees. At that time, the military didn't hold much appeal for many of my age group.

I am glad and grateful that the times have changed and brought folks like you that serve. I live in a community that is heavily military (USMC) and as I came to know these folks, I quickly came to see that they are the BEST of the BEST!

But I didn't quite follow the rant you made over the article. I think that if you re-read it, you'll see that it is, in fact, quite complimentary of the U. S. and our society. Although the author's nationality was not stated, it was apparent that he is British, not so much because he works for the BBC, but by the way he spelled certain words.

My only point of dispute was Frei's implication that slavery was an American "mistake", conveniently overlooking the fact that slavery was a legacy of our "Britishness." The first African slaves were brought here in 1613, and were enslaved, sold, bought, and owned by British citizens. Slavery persisted for more than 160 years in the Colonies, under British rule. It was only after our independence that we really struggled with the issue for the next 80 years, culminating in one of the bloodiest civil wars ever fought.

Yet we cannot escape our "Britishness" as an element of our present being, and a fact of our history, despite the wide array of cultures that have melded together to form this wonderful place. (Where else would events like St. Patrick's Day and Cinco de Mayo be celebrated with zeal when they are hardly noticed in their countries of origin?)

Every nation, every people, have blotches in their history for which to atone. The two greatest of ours are the holding of humans in slavery, and the genocide and "ethnic cleansing" of our native tribes - both vestiges of our colonial roots. Iraq pales in comparison with these moral falls.

But if the idea that the Brits would hold such a debate (regretting the founding of the U. S.), even as tongue-in-cheek sport, has you upset, take heart. The recent gains made by the SNP (Scottish National Party) may inject a bit of disunity into the United Kingdom. Or at least add to the popularity of kilts!
Sasq

[ChrisM]

Matt Frei is the BBC's US correspondent. His writings provide a thought-provoking look at the USA from another nation's point of view. Do you appreciate it when your wife points out that your hair is mussed? In the same fashion it is helpful to listen to what other people see in our culture, words, and deeds. I enjoy Frei's writings.

[Reject]

Edit: deleted

[Sasquatch]

Matt Frei is the BBC's US correspondent. His writings provide a thought-provoking look at the USA from another nation's point of view. Do you appreciate it when your wife points out that your hair is mussed? In the same fashion it is helpful to listen to what other people see in our culture, words, and deeds. I enjoy Frei's writings.

Oh believe me, my wife wouldn't stop at my hair!:)
Sasq

[Boatman398]

To imadube, You are right about the greed causing our oil prices to go up. How ever crude is going down as the price of gas goes up. It is the home grown greed we need to deal with and the idiot son of an oil man in the oval office.To be so religous and patriot to be blind to our problems here in the US is why we have the moron bush in office. While New Orleans is still unfinished left over FEMA money is being spent here in Florida to restore the rich condo dwellers beach front from the minor storms we had a few weeks ago. We have homeless Veterans. How wrong can a nation become. Every year the number of people living below the poverty level increases. The Walton children pay walmart workers below poverty level wages and the tax payers end up footing the bill for their health care. Ford lays off 30,000 workers and pays a $18,000,000 sign on bonus to the new CEO. We take from the poor and give to the rich. The lower 55% of Venezuelians have seen a 30% increase in their wages under Hugo Chavez but we hear how evil he is. After all he is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. More and more poor people in Venezuela are getting medical care through a trade of oil for doctors with Cuba. YES it is stll better here if you make above average income but if we don't stop letting patriatism blind us to what is happening it won't last. No country can defeat us any more then the Romans. We will defeat ourselves. 1970 to 1975 I served my country proudly so I feel I have some right to critisize.

[AndrewH]

This has become a political thread rather than a skirt-issue thread.

I agree with the original (skirt or trouser wearing) post!!!

[iain]

I agree with everything Boatman has said, political or not.. I think if the core of each thread is truth, we can't go far wrong..