More groups the better

[imadube]

the more groups to be found the more the trend gets support. So,
http://www.hi5.com/friend/group/display ... Id=1634930
Private community Fashion Freedom Group - free to join!

[binx]

You seriously need a grammar and spelling checker, if you're going to create a web presence.

binx

[cessna152towser]

Don't want to disappoint you but it seems to me that the same usernames crop up again and again in numerous kilt/skirt groups, forums, websites etc. and creating another site is just going to dilute the support of existing ones rather than bringing in more new members and encouraging clothing manufacturers to produce garments, which is one reason why my own website concentrates mainly on my other interests, with only one album purely devoted to kilts.

[imadube]

Sorry - ignore me then

[cessna152towser]

No offence intended, Mark, and I'm not ignoring you, just giving you my personal views as to why I see no need for another group, if its going to be formed of the same people who already trawl round kilt/skirt forums. But I wish you the best of luck with your project and would hope you would succeed in gaining more support for the fashion freedom cause.

[skirttron]

Yeah by all means let us have more web presence; the more territory we occupy the better and there is room for a range of approaches. Two observations, however: Firstly, I must echo Binx's point on grammar and spelling, and secondly, you specify very narrow criteria on who should join.
skirtcafe.org is far more inclusive, and I for one find this a friendlier approach.

[iain]

I'd tend to agree; in terms of community groups, it's good to have a new one in the USA if you see one in the UK and want to emulate it. But on the web, that doesn't make sense unless you're catering for a different crowd altogether. One web site covers the whole world.

Sometimes people prefer to have a group which they have full control over, and for them, being in a forum where they do not have the final say is irksome, but the web sites I've seen of that kind of individual usually get bogged down with so many lists of rules and etiquettes and pages of "suggestions" (PC translation: "rules") that people shy away. And they have to have spelling and grammar taken care of. Otherwise they can look like they were written by children, no matter how hurtful this may sound; the web audience (by and large) is sophisticated and discerning.. they know what is and what isn't their own language, and you don't necessarily want a forum full of people who don't notice or don't care or who can't read or write properly. English grammar and spelling really isn't hard; I know people who speak it as a third language, and they laugh if anyone suggests it's difficult.

These forums seem to take time to evolve and some people get discouraged at lack of support and I think others eventually get put off by the thankless work required to keep them organised and coherent.

Hey, I spent the whole day today in London in a lightweight, 17", blackwatch kilt, boots etc, and this sure seems to still turns heads, maybe because it was breezy. But girls were wafting past in tiny minis and being ignored, so even given the weather I don't see how my kilt was anything exceptional other than being worn by a guy.

I feel self conscious sometimes but I think you have to make a stand now and again and let people be exposed to the sight of a guy in a skirted garment in an everyday context, not in a bagpiper parade or highland assault, and regardless of the weather.

One day I really hope it won't be such a big deal. Just wearing one because the guy felt like it when he got up, and for no other reason, no other reason at all. Just a fashion choice without subtext, social commentary, hidden agenda, or outlandish self-promotion.. just a colour he liked, a mood which suited him then and there, and that was good enough reason to go out and have a mooch around town.

Must have been about a thousand people saw me, so it has to make a difference somewhere, surely?

[skirttron]

Hey Iain,
In most spare time I wear a kilt (and occasionally a skirt) in modern style with colourful top, trainers and a shoulder bag amongst the city throng in multiple locations. I, too felt conspicuous at first, but I now wear this stuff with attitude and it feels totally natural. I avoid traditional styles because I do not live in the 18th century. It is rare that I get a negative comment. I do not, by the way, live in Scotland, although I make frequent visits there. I do not go commando (regimental) and I do pin the flap all the way through, to avoid any embarrassment due to gale-force winds. I do not care that pinning all the way through and wearing stuff underneath is considered non-traditional, because I care nothing for tradition or tartan clan associations.

[imadube]

Hey guys, I made the really needed corrections - were - WHERE are we if we can not function together with aide and consideration. I batter myself for the oversights on the typing, however I also accept imperfections that lead to sometimes mistakes.
About making more forums, I felt that the area in which I set this forum up is of such a varied peoples that the browsers of this site may find it and realize what is happening. In fact, I opened a question on MSN Groups under Lifestyles pointed at the ladies that review the forums. I got at least two ladies thinking and admittedly opened up to the idea. One of which was of the thought that Traditional Kilt wearing was the ONLY place men should not wear trousers, she was open enough to view my photo's and now she feels what a wonderful idea this is. The styles I chose and the "outfits" my wife and I put together turned her to see how well this movement would be for society. So, in saying all of this I believe that if we as a group hide in safe forums only and expect the average person to just "happen by" and learn from us - we have lost the war already. Opening a forum inside such a Networked Community as www.hi5.com and open advertising - even in subtle backdrop wardrobes of commercials for other goods - we expose much more of the worlds eyes to the fact that this is a trend we WILL see to fullfillment.
So, please join me there and spread the word :cheer:

[ChristopherJ]

Sorry - ignore me then

That comes across to me as a really childish response to some comments that were made. I'm suprised - as I usually like your posts.

EDIT - I see you've taken the constructive criticism on board. Well done.

[skirts4me]

I can see where everyone who's already contributed is coming from here. It's true that the same names keep cropping up in the forums. Many of my posts are cut and pasted into another group because I haven't time to be writing individual posts in all the groups I visit. Small numbers and a lack of activity can be a deterrent for new members and so it's important to not spread the groups too thinly. On the other hand Mark has a valid point that getting out into larger and more varied groups gives us the opportunity to raise the awareness of many who wouldn't normally approach groups like this. Iain was right on the mark so far as grammar and spelling are concerned, though I doubt these days if many would know what good grammar is if it hit them in the face, or am I just talking from an Australian perspective? Nevertheless, it's important for the pages to look good and be accurate - it's called education when we show people how it should be done.

I, for one, am always out and about in a skirt, leading by example, making sure that plenty of people see me, even to the extent of looking for and making opportunities, because I believe that the best way to get true fashion freedom is to bring it into real people's lives. It would be nice to feel that I'm not the only one in Perth doing that!

For what it's worth I think we, as a group, need to look at participating in as many open groups as possible ("open" being the operative word), even if only two or three of us are involved in any one group. Is a skirt group within the hi5 community likely to be seen? If so, we should support those who want to join and encourage them to keep the discussion topics near the top of the community's list; if it isn't, then it's probably a waste of effort, however well-intended.

We can also support existing groups such as men-in-skirts.org, which was set up in response to comments here and elsewhere about having a united and coordinated front. Among other things, that group is trying to look out for American, European and Australian media items which we can follow, and to which we can respond, in an effort to keep the subject in the public eye, but just looking for items requires more than a handful of people giving their time for the cause.

I've raised enough issues to stir a debate for years so I'll sit back now and see what others think.

[ChristopherJ]

I, for one, am always out and about in a skirt, leading by example, making sure that plenty of people see me, even to the extent of looking for and making opportunities, because I believe that the best way to get true fashion freedom is to bring it into real people's lives.

Well done you, for that. I completely agree with what you said there and believe that if we wear skirts while just doing normal everyday activities - then the male wearing of skirts will slowly be seen as a normal thing - i.e. not something that is only confined to nightclubs, or special events like galas or festivals etc.

I've only been wearing skirts for a few months - and have generally had a good response from people. Had a very bad response on Monday though. As I was walking down a busy street someone was yelling (in a very loud voice) "Hey! You! You pervert! Wearing a skirt - you dick head! Get a sex change!" and so on . . . in a very, very aggressive way.

Problem is - that I am very deaf. I am completely deaf in one ear and so cannot tell what direction a sound is coming from - so I could not locate who was shouting this at me. They weren't on the pavement or I would have seen them - so they must have been in a car - which was stuck in a traffic jam. Anyhow - not being able to see who was yelling - I got scared and walked into a shop just in case I got attacked. I waited a few minutes and then carried on with my day. That wasn't a pleasant experience though. :shake:

Still - and sorry to veer off the point - that will not put me off. It is important to me as an individual to be able to express myself - and wearing skirts is a part of that. And it's also very important in getting the idea across to people that a man in a skirt is no more weird than a woman in a pair of jeans. But in getting out and making sure that people see us, I guess that we are all likely to have some bad experiences like that sometimes.

[cessna152towser]

Of course all the dickhead who was shouting succeeded in doing was drawing attention to his own stupidity. Right minded people don't bawl out in the middle of the street. I think you did the right thing treating him with the contempt he deserved and appearing to ignore him by going into a shop. If you hadn't been there he'd probably have taken it out on another driver.

[cessna152towser]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but I might add, when I was a callow ignorant youth I might well have reacted in the same immature way from the safety of a car to seeing a man in a skirt or even a kilt - my teenage sweetheart ran off with a guy whom I had considered to be fem and certainly not a love rival and who later had a sex change and became a woman. Throughout my twenties I was very bitter about it - my perception that LGBT's were the successes of my age group who found all the happiness and me being a straight guy who just wanted to marry and have kids and wear long trousers was destined to be deprived of this and become a lonely old man. Little could I have foreseen that I would marry a nice wife much later in life who was interested in Scottish country dancing and thus introduced me to straight guys who wore kilts. Having finally learned that kilts weren't the trademark of a pervert, and were worn by real men, I eventually bought one for myself. Now I wear kilts more often than I wear trousers, and have just purchased my first unpleated man's skirt from Midas Clothing, which I would hope to have the confidence to go out in when the weather improves.

[iain]

LGBT.. what does it stand for? Leggy Girl Buying.. no, I can't work it out..