The Sauna

[Stu]

Today, I am the proud owner of a men's Armani towelling wrap - worth about £40, but provided to me free of charge by my local sports club!!

http://www.bluexclothing.co.uk/acatalog ... and=Armani

How did I get it for free? I am on a user's committee at my local leisure centre. They have recently re-vamped the saunas, steamrooms and cooling-off "relaxation area". We have decided to make all sessions mixed-sex, so obviously swimwear must be worn at all times. One 'gentleman' complained to staff that he (flashers are invariably male, I'm afraid) said he didn't feel it was hygeinic or comfortable to wear trunks in the sauna (obviously he wanted an excuse to expose himself to the female users). Naturally, he was told politely to find another centre that would cater for his exhibitionist tendencies. When this was raised at a meeting way back in September, it was suggested that customers should be allowed just to cover themselves with towels. I pointed out that towels have a tendency to drop off, especially when worn by perverts, but if customers didn't want to wear trunks, surely they could wear proper towelling wraps. I thought no more of it until today, my red Armani wrap arrived at my house with a "with compliments" slip from the leisure centre manager, Darren. I phoned him at once to say "thanks", and he said he just wanted me to try it out and tell him if it was secure enough to be worn in the sauna. If it was, they'd buy a dozen or so of them and hire them out to any sauna users that either preferred them to trunks, or didn't have swimwear with them. Either way, I get to keep mine! :cheer:

So I got a free "skirt" - well, sort of! I'll be trying it out at the sauna tomorrow - with my trunks on underneath, naturally.



Stu

[iain]

One 'gentleman' complained to staff that he (flashers are invariably male, I'm afraid) said he didn't feel it was hygeinic or comfortable to wear trunks in the sauna (obviously he wanted an excuse to expose himself to the female users). Naturally, he was told politely to find another centre that would cater for his exhibitionist tendencies.

interesting how in mainland europe it is comon to find public mixed-sex saunas, as part of swimming complexes, for example, where everyone is naked and nobody bats an eye. are they exhibitionists? or just perfectly normal, healthy people? in any sauna you can't wear trunks, of course! you'll cook everything inside. how can anyone who promotes skirts and kilts for men at least partially for health reasons not agree? it's neither hygeinic or comfortable, so this guy's complaint is so full of common sense I'm surprised some people wanted him tarred and feathered and run out of town as a flasher! I'd have said the same thing.

a good friend of mine from italy laughed at our habit of raising eyebrows and expressing mild shock at seeing other people naked. "it's so natural, everyone knows about it," she said. "what is the big surprise? you people are such hypocrites sometimes! it's really comical." so it's no wonder she thinks skirts on men are perfectly sensible.

but let's be fair Stu--women, are flashers big, big time! I wonder if you ever heard of low cut tops, low cut dresses, tiny mini skirts, low rise jeans, exposed thongs, tiny shorts, or see through trousers, see through shirts, camel-toe lightweight trousers, tiny swimsuits, thongs at the beach, etc etc? a survey on misterpoll of women who wore minis revealed that more than 75% did it to enable their underwear to be seen. put any man in anything remotely revealing and he's labelled a flasher. oh, please! on this open minded site, let's at least be fair! and what about women who streak naked across football or cricket pitches? think back..

yes, raincoat flashers exist and are always men. but remember, men are given virtually no variety of fashion as women are. maybe if you cooped women up in grey suits all their lives, there would be more women flashers! I watched a bus of teenage tourists pass me on the street once and a girl bared her bottom to me through a full length glass door. I was stunned! but it was funny. so maybe what we're saying is that some men do form a danger to society and those characters are primarily male. but not all of them, by any means. and nor can we discern one by his quite sensible request to be naked in 120 degree heat.

mind you, in america, it's even worse: people can sue the media for trauma after seeing a breast on TV!! a more suitable topic, for american TV, at least, is death: the sight of bombs flattening a country and leaving tens of thousands of people homeless is breakfast viewing material. but a natural root of all human life, the breast, is an ugly menace to be shunned as traumatic. hide the children!! no wonder america is friends with saudi arabia, where a woman cannot even legally get in a car with a man who is not a male relative!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_ ... di_justice

yes, it's an interesting world.. but is it any wonder some people completely lose patience with it so easily?

[Stu]

Iain

You have to be a bit careful when generalising about "Europe". In most European countries, nudity is normal in public saunas etc BUT they are strictly sex-segregated. This applies in the supposedly uninhibited Scandinavia, a part of the world I know extremely well, and also in Finland, home of the sauna. Mixed saunas are sometimes found in Scandinavian hotels, or in family settings. In some European countries, nudity outside the home is an absolute taboo (e.g. Ireland). While there are some mixed facilities in Germany, Holland and France, there are others that are sex segregated, too.

At my leisure centre, we had separate facilities but with a strict condition that prudes like me would be able to feel comfortable by insisting that one's 'privates' are covered from view. Such a rule also discourages the 'undesirables' from using the facilities with prurient miotives. All in all, I think the towelling wrap is a reasonable compromise for those who don't want to wear swimwear, don't you?

I have made no secret of my belief that nudists are exhibitionists in denial, and exhibitionism is a form of sexual deviance. You mention women wearing low-cut dresses and short skirts and you say that is exhibitionism - I'm not sure I would go that far, but revealing clothing works by suggestivity rather than the overt exposure of the sex organs. As for female breasts - they are regarded by most women as intimate, and have a long association with eroticism in western culture, so it seems reasonable to me that the parts of them which are most sensual are not generally exposed in public.

Anyway, I'm off to test out my new wrap!

Stu

[iain]

hmm, maybe you're right.. but head out to cologne in germany and you'll find the public baths there--which are very sophisticated apparently, with automated tracking bracelets etc. I used to have a friend who lived there and she explained mixed nudity seemed very normal to her, since she grew up with it.

I'm not sure I'd venture into such a place but I think in saunas after the initial ten seconds of hesitation has worn off, it'd be business as usual and nothing much worth getting worked up about.

you're right about nudists--the ones I've seen interviewed on TV just seem weird. weird in the way they constantly justify nudity in themselves (and more often, in others) but in a studiously benign way. it all seems very contrived. clothing is generally a sexual or social flag of some sort, or a collection of flags, and even tiny swimsuits are more fascinating than nudity because they involve the imagination in all sorts of ways. a swimsuit can reflect the character, sexual intent, or even indifference of the wearer. nudity takes all that away and gives you the same interpretation for everyone.

I think you could only be interested in nudity if your primary focus was the type of body, instead of the fascinating social flags which clothing presents. therefore, the nudist is actually far more interested in the naked form and the shape and size than he makes out, a fact of which he will be acutely aware, and which he must take pains to disguise with his casually presented enthusiasm on other grounds!

just as, I suppose, watching any show is more interesting than simply cutting straight to the end. the purpose of the show is to reveal the end and the reasons leading up to it, so the end is the final goal, but the journey itself is what is actually interesting. devoid of the journey, the conclusion has nothing much in itself to recommend it. so nudity might be a goal of sorts but the clothing, and the social dance which presents it and enables interaction, gives you an opportunity to learn far more about the subtleties of the characters involved than just dispensing with clothes altogether.

skirts are very definitely a theatre of sorts: a curtain, around an area of interest, which takes on a life of its own in the imagination. some skirt wearers seem akin to nudists, in their thinking, in that they are continually justifying themselves with a staggering armoury of reasons, sometimes delivered with a lot of defensive anger, or in a very offhand but persistent way. an armoury of reasons is all very well but methinks some people do indeed protest too much!

[Sashi]

I totally agree on the view points about America, even if I am an American myself. It doesn't make sense that we so eagerly eat up violence but shun anything that has to do with nudity or sexuality, like it's a sin or something. Although it probably has a lot to do with the Christian background of our country. Ironically, even though I am a Christian, my views seem to differ quite a bit sometimes from most Christians, and possibly a lot of Americans as well.

I don't really know much about nudists, but when I really think about you post iain, it makes me realize just how boring nudism is compared to even skimpy clothing. You're right about how it gives you a physical look into a facet of the person's mind and personality. Besides, I like looking at people's clothes, especially of the female variety since it is usually more varied and therefore appeals to my tastes better. Colorful, complicated patterns, various designs; these types of things are all to difficult to find in men's apparel.

That Armani towelling wrap looks quite interesting. You'll have to tell us how it feels and works out for you later on Stu. By the way, I've noticed a lot of you guys are from various places in and around Europe. Are there many people on here from places such as the United States or Canada or wherever near there, or am I just one of the few?

[skirttron]

The sauna I sometimes used in the 1970s in Scotland was single-sex (no, it wasn't a gay one at all, it was in a Sports Centre in a bleak shopping area) and everyone went naked and jumped into a 6ft deep cold plunge afterwards. I think they would have called you gay if you wore a swimsuit if that word had been invented yet. One guy legendarily drank a bottle of whisky first and had a fatal heart attack when he jumped into the plunge.