Why have't women figured this out yet??

[mushroom]

I am sitting here in a dress I bought at a used clothing store the other day. I am cooler now than I was a few hours ago when I was wearing shorts alone. Cooler and more comfortable. So why are women still wanting to wear shorts, jeans. pants etc., instead of more comfortableand (in this hot humid weather) skirts and dresses??? I am totally confused!!!

[Sylvain]

Why? Maybe because they long had to, and now can escape this obligation. Maybe because they don't want their legs (and up) to be looked at by every passing-by man. Maybe because, being girls, they couldn't jump or run in nice dresses, and have then linked pants with freedom. Maybe because they don't like their legs. Maybe because they are not as warm as men, and thererfore don't find pants too warm.

[MtnBiker]

Just last night, my 7 year old niece told me how she didn't like to wear dresses and skirts because it's just too much trouble trying to keep up with how she is sitting.

[mushroom]

Why? Maybe because they long had to, and now can escape this obligation. Maybe because they don't want their legs (and up) to be looked at by every passing-by man. Maybe because, being girls, they couldn't jump or run in nice dresses, and have then linked pants with freedom. Maybe because they don't like their legs. Maybe because they are not as warm as men, and thererfore don't find pants too warm.
That is so sad. I have but just recently discovered the freedom of wearing skirts and dresses. As a male just getting into the freedom of skirts and dresses I am not famliar with the whys and wherefores of the female perspective on fashion. I am a pragmatist by nature and look at clothing as a means of covering up the body. To me it seems that a male in a skirt or dress is much more practical than wearing pants or shorts. I wear my skirts and dresses because they are the most comfortable apparel that I have found. Not because society tells me that I should!! I am not a cross dresser, as someone on here so adaquately put it "if I wanted to dress as a woman... I would wear jeans"
So I am open to comments.... Should men wear clothing that is (sorry... was) formerly accepted as belonging to the female half of our race, or should they be relegated to the standards that have been set out for us over the last 100 yrs and bow down to the norms of societal opines???
Your move

[Departed Member]

Why? Maybe because they long had to, and now can escape this obligation. Maybe because they don't want their legs (and up) to be looked at by every passing-by man. Maybe because, being girls, they couldn't jump or run in nice dresses, and have then linked pants with freedom. Maybe because they don't like their legs. Maybe because they are not as warm as men, and thererfore don't find pants too warm.

That doesn't really bear out with my childhood (or teenage) memories. Girls then did whatever they wanted, almost without exception (that being the 'posh frock' syndrome, of course!). I think the PC brigade, led by the feminazis, have more to answer. The all pervading "It's better to be regarded as a 'second class man', than a 'first class woman'" came from their influence. :irked: Girls today have so little freedom compared to as little as forty years ago - very sad times, indeed. Whilst none of the girls/women I grew up with had any 'hang-ups' about being 'looked at', most felt obligated to enter the tr*user age, most also agreeing that it was because "everyone else is doing". On the chill factor issue, I challenged some of my (then) colleagues to don skirt, slip, tights & boots instead of tr*users, when they complained about feeling cold. The younger ones who did, were actually pleasantly surprised to find they were both warmer and more comfortable!

[crfriend]

That doesn't really bear out with my childhood (or teenage) memories. Girls then did whatever they wanted, almost without exception (that being the 'posh frock' syndrome, of course!). I think the PC brigade, led by the feminazis, have more to answer. The all pervading "It's better to be regarded as a 'second class man', than a 'first class woman'" came from their influence.

Out of curiosity, and since it's not listed under your profile, might I ask your chronological age? Some of the points touched on are rather interesting, at least from a sociological point of view, and need to be time bound.

That out of the way, I happen to regard skirted garments as looking better on both sexes. They offer lots more "room" for expression. The fact that women have virtually abandoned skirted garments is, at the same time, sad and good for us -- Men In Skirts. It may offer room for a "land grab" but still expose us to latent ridicule from those who "don't get it".

I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, and still find it interesting (not to mention humourous) that most women in my age bracket have no clue how to handle a skirted garment -- it's beyond their capabilities having worn nothing but pants (slang dig fully intended) their whole lives. It's especially funny when confronted with the occasional wedding function at my local "establishment" and I watch the women having more "problems" with their skirts than I do with mine! OK, so that's a blatantly sexist remark. So what -- is it that far off the mark?

Whilst none of the girls/women I grew up with had any 'hang-ups' about being 'looked at', most felt obligated to enter the tr*user age, most also agreeing that it was because "everyone else is doing".

Peer pressure is still as strong in adulthood as it is in adolescence -- at least for the weak minded. That's a sad comment, but I think it rings true. Why else would us lot need a "support forum?! Why else would us lot need a "support forum?!

On the chill factor issue, I challenged some of my (then) colleagues to don skirt, slip, tights & boots instead of tr*users, when they complained about feeling cold. The younger ones who did, were actually pleasantly surprised to find they were both warmer and more comfortable!

I put this one to the test last winter, and can very confidently state that a long skirt, worn with moderately heavy tights and a slip can be remarkably warm. In fact, I've put time in shovelling my driveway and front walk in such rigs -- they're astonishingly warm once one gets moving. That and they feel a heck of a lot better than tr*users.

[Kilted_John]

Carl,

Even a knee-length or calf-length skirt, worn with wool kneesox can be quite warm during the winter... Back when I started skirting in 2002, about 3-4 days after I first went public, we got snow. Wore a brown velvet skirt that came just below my knees with a pair of wool kilt hose socks and a pair of hiking boots out in the snow. Was quite comfy. A little cooler than my wool kilts are, but still quite bearable, even with the temps being in the mid-20's.

-J

[Charlie]

So I am open to comments.... Should men wear clothing that is (sorry... was) formerly accepted as belonging to the female half of our race, or should they be relegated to the standards that have been set out for us over the last 100 yrs and bow down to the norms of societal opines???
Your move

Yes, men should wear clothing that was formerly accepted as belonging to the female half of the population. It takes people like us to buck the trend and shake up society, otherwise society will never change, except in the ways dictated by the politicians and big business (and I'd guess business has more sway than the politicians). Personally, I take great delight in not doing what I am told to do by these people - while staying within the law, of course.

And, provided what we do hurts no-one and is legal, society can stuff its norms and opines where the sun don't shine

I'd like to think that in 50 years time, when men wearing skirts is quite normal, that the posts in Tom's Cafe and Skirt Cafe, and other MIS-related websites, will form part of a museum exhibit chronicalling the history of men's fashion.

Charlie

[Departed Member]

Out of curiosity, and since it's not listed under your profile, might I ask your chronological age? Some of the points touched on are rather interesting, at least from a sociological point of view, and need to be time bound.

From the summer of '49, I'm afraid to say! In those days, it was still regarded as normal for all babies, regardless of gender, to wear (usu. white) dresses up to around one year (boys having no frills, etc.). Thence to 'romper suits', shorts by two & tr*users by teenage. My mother did try me in tr*users at the age of four - once! The resultant rashes/boils, etc. took a while to subside. The medics suggested a Kilt (which my Mother would have liked!), but I was too self-conscious in those days (& my Father was too tight-fisted, anyway!). The medical problem has never really gone away (worsening, in fact), although Kilts were to follow, but only after years of skirt-wearing, primarily due to cost!

That out of the way, I happen to regard skirted garments as looking better on both sexes.

Hear, hear!

I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, and still find it interesting (not to mention humourous) that most women in my age bracket have no clue how to handle a skirted garment -- it's beyond their capabilities having worn nothing but pants (slang dig fully intended) their whole lives. -- is it that far off the mark?

Goodness! I must admit to deriving an ill-disguised sense of amusement watching some of the younger females fiddling with & tugging their skirts in the 21st Century. No sublety at all!

Peer pressure is still as strong in adulthood as it is in adolescence -- at least for the weak minded. That's a sad comment, but I think it rings true. Why else would us lot need a "support forum?

Agree 100% with this. The pressure from Press & TV (such stupidity as "What Not To Wear") must be tremendous, if you're young.

I put this one to the test last winter, and can very confidently state that a long skirt, worn with moderately heavy tights and a slip can be remarkably warm. In fact, I've put time in shovelling my driveway and front walk in such rigs -- they're astonishingly warm once one gets moving. That and they feel a heck of a lot better than tr*users.

The reaction from the girls was quite funny. They seemed genuinely surprised that (the same) long skirts can be warm in winter & cool in summer. It must have been perplexing to anyone overhearing the (initial) conversation to hear a bloke advising girls how to wear skirts!!! One did conjecture, "I suppose this is from personal experience?", to which the reply "Too right!", elicited the response, "I just wish more men would think with their heads instead of their b*lls!"

[AMM]

The more rational part of my mind is shaking its head at the sight of a bunch of non-women speculating on the motivations of women. (I notice that none of the female participants have weighed in on the topic.)

But then I figure, what the heck: the highest official in my country doesn't let ignorance stand in the way of stating his opinions as received wisdom, so why should I?

Hence, the title of my contribution.... (worth about what I'm getting paid for it )


One thing we (men) have to keep in mind is that wearing skirts brings up different issues for men than for women, due to both upbringing (training) and the different experiences that women have.

Some reasons I am aware of why women don't wear skirts & dresses:

1. As has already been mentioned, wearing a skirt, you have to be much more careful about how you stand, sit, and move if you don't want to show everybody exactly what you have under your skirt. Actually, if you wear skirts (of any length) enough, it is inevitable that sooner or later, you'll expose yourself. (With longer skirts, it is only less frequent.) Last week, I went to a dance in a skirt and had not had time to check the mirror. And a kind man at the dance pointed out pretty early on that the back of my skirt was hung up on my underwear -- I don't want to think about what people saw!
   
   I recall seeing a girl in a calf-length skirt sitting on a bench and pulling her knees up to her chest, and we all got a view until she rearranged herself. I have confirmed that, on me, my skirt has to be at least 33 inches long (ankle length) before this doesn't happen.
   
   Unless you are an exhibitionist, climbing trees and ladders is out in a skirt, and even standing on a fire escape or a deck or balcony that doesn't have a solid floor.
   
   And women have to contend with men who go to annoying lengths to look up (and feel up!) under their skirts. CD'ers also report this problem.
2. You feel more exposed "down there" in a skirt, and more sexually accessible. (There's a page on the Utilikilts website with a list of advanatages to Utilikilts, and "access" appears several times on that list.)
   
   For me, as a man, it's sort of thrilling -- I'm not used to feeling like I could be a sex object, so it's a nice change.
   
   But women are always complaining about having to deal with men who won't take "no" for an answer, not to mention the danger of rape or near-rape. We could debate how much wearing pants vs. skirt affects the frequency of such incidents, but there's no denying that skirts attract more male attention, of both the wanted and unwanted kind.
   
   And I've heard both men and women report about how (some) boys like to pull girls' skirts up just to annoy them. I don't think wedgies are quite the same.
3. I'm old enough that when I went to school, girls were still forbidden to wear pants to school, and you still didn't see women in pants at church. And, of course, you had to wear your skirts in a suitably ladylike way. So, for them, wearing skirts is associated with a lack of freedom.
4. Skirts (on women) are still associated in many people's minds with a submissive and subservient female role. There are still many, many men who won't take women seriously in work situations. Now, they may still not take a woman seriously if she's wearing pants, but why wear something that draws attention to the fact that you are a woman (and thus ignorable)?

Some posters on this thread have mentioned "peer pressure" and media images.

I don't think this is any stronger now than it was 40 years ago, it just goes in a different direction. 40 years ago, you only saw women in pants in very casual circumstances, whether in the media or in real life. I think these things follow the trends, they don't really make them.


Voila, my opinions. They must be true, since they're mine....


-- AMM

[Since1982]

And a kind man at the dance pointed out pretty early on that the back of my skirt was hung up on my underwear -- I don't want to think about what people saw!

Depending on whether you were wearing boxer shorts or jockey shorts, both of which styles can be gotten in swim trunks and what "people saw that you didn't want to think about" was probably no more than they would have seen had you been just out of a swimming pool. :whiteflag

[Sylvain]

Out of curiosity, and since it's not listed under your profile, might I ask your chronological age? Some of the points touched on are rather interesting, at least from a sociological point of view, and need to be time bound.
(...)
I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, and still find it interesting (not to mention humourous) that most women in my age bracket have no clue how to handle a skirted garment -- it's beyond their capabilities having worn nothing but pants (slang dig fully intended) their whole lives.

For my part, I was born in 1964, and most of the women here (Montréal) wear skirts or dresses, from time to time, mainly in Summer, even the younger ones. My GF had to wear a «jumper» when she attended high school. My 9-year-old daughter prefers skirts to trousers.

[Since1982]

Wow, 1964....I got my first college degree in 1964, a Bachelors degree in Marine Taxonomy, in '66 I got my Masters in Marine Biology and in '70 I finished up my schooling with Doctorate in Oceanography...I was 29 then..Wow. and you were 6....LOL I'd also been in 2 movies by '64..Amazing how old all that makes me feel. I was only an extra and a stunt double in the 2 movies, low pay, long hours, dangerous jobs. Memory lane.

Mostly good memories tho... :think:

[Bravehearts.us]

Girls today have so little freedom compared to as little as forty years ago

What freedoms are you talking about that they don't have?
Lar

[crfriend]

The pressure from Press & TV (such stupidity as "What Not To Wear") must be tremendous, if you're young.

Or weak minded...

My wife and I caught an episode of the above-named series (primarily out of a fit of boredom) the other day and it was just plain awful. The "advice" was completely off the mark, and the poor lass they "made over" came out the other end of that meat-grinder looking worse than she looked going in.

We subsequently went out and deliberately broke as many of their rules as possible -- her in a sky-blue mini-dress (screw that "no miniskirts after 30" "rule") and me in my black tiered skirt (I should have borrowed her green one; it looks good with a yellow-based Hawaiian shirt I have; but, alas, with that rig there are *no* pockets). :stir: