IMPLICATIONS

[Stu]

Imagine we are now in late September 2027. The lull ended a while ago and the developments of men-in-skirts have been profound - so much so that this discussion board has become defunct. You get up one Friday morning to hear your 12-year-old son asking your wife: “Mum. Have I got a clean skirt for school?” Your wife replies: “Yes, but it’s quite cold today, so you’ll need to wear tights.” You know about 30-40%% of the boys at his school can be seen in uniform skirts on any given day, roughly the same proportion as girls. You turn on the TV and watch the news. Lots of men - politicians, reporters, sportsmen, presenters etc, are wearing skirts and dresses just as lots of women are. It’s totally normal. You call into the shopping centre/mall and you decide you need a new suit for work. You try on a suit and your wife says: “The jacket is perfect and really suits you, but the trousers just don’t hang right. Why not try it with the shift dress?” What are the implications for our categories and why do they matter?


The Screwdriver

For Mr Screwdriver, this is utopia. He has the same range of options as his wife. His son has the same range as his daughter - what’s not to like? His dress choices are determined according to his personal comfort at any given time.


The Tattoo

There was a time when Mr Tattoo’s skirt-wearing caused a reaction among others. That may be surprise, or mild shock , and would absolutely give rise to questions. Not any more. When lots of men are wearing these garments, then the fashion has become totally mainstream and normalised. Walking out in a skirt while sporting a beard doesn’t even warrant a second glance. Mr Tattoo will have to find something else to express his individuality.


The Lipstick

With skirts and dresses becoming fully normalised for men and boys, all feminine associations with these garments are lost. A skirt is now no more feminine than a teaspoon; it’s just a garment. As such, wearing these to emphasise femininity is futile and, as with Mr Tattoo. This is not utopia as it is for Mr Screwdriver as he has to find a completely different signifier to express anima (the female persona he is impelled to release).

[Grok]

Actually, I don't expect change to be nearly so sweeping on such a short time scale. For the immediate future, I imagine only utilitarian designs (screwdriver options) gaining commercial viability. Regarding Tattoo and Lipstick, I expect these to continue for decades to come, perhaps becoming irrelevant in the early 22nd century. Yes, as I have commented before, I expect a sartorial revolution to take at least a century to be fully realized.

[robehickman]

It is absolutely possible to start a movement where guys start wearing skirts, if some celebrity were to do it and their followers copied them, but it would need to be done in serious intent and not as a joke or political statement as it has generally been thus far.

[crfriend]

What's the fundamental difference between some random "celebrity" doing something and a random political stunt?

Methinks we pay way too much attention to "celebrity" (and jocks and politicians). The world is a vast place and humanity almost as vast. None of us here are "celebrities", but yet we make a difference every day when we're "out there" just being ourselves. This is the way that great things happen.

[Seb]

Would that not be a fantastic place to be, I too think the timescale is an optimistic dream but for me, that would be the end goal.

[robehickman]

What's the fundamental difference between some random "celebrity" doing something and a random political stunt?

Methinks we pay way too much attention to "celebrity" (and jocks and politicians). The world is a vast place and humanity almost as vast. None of us here are "celebrities", but yet we make a difference every day when we're "out there" just being ourselves. This is the way that great things happen.

If you look at the instances where males wearing skirts have been publicised by media outlets, it has been things like 'train drivers protesting not being allowed to wear shorts', and 'school boys not being allowed to wear shorts'. In both cases the goal is 'to be allowed to wear shorts', not 'I'm wearing a skirt because I want to wear a skirt'.

To have any lasting impact there needs to be a clear motive that one is wearing a skirt, because wearing a skirt is the end goal.

[Stu]

Would that not be a fantastic place to be, I too think the timescale is an optimistic dream but for me, that would be the end goal.

It would be great for me because I'm Mr Screwdriver - so bring it on.

My concern is for the Mr Lipsticks among us.

[Offkilter69]

I wish 2027 was realistic for seeing the normalization of males wearing skirts, at least in the USA. I have been a very active kilt wearer (mainly utility) for six plus years. I have rarely come across others like myself, let alone guys wearing actual skirts in public - my next challenge to myself.

We are truly pioneers, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

[Mouse]

If you look at the instances where males wearing skirts have been publicised by media outlets, it has been things like 'train drivers protesting not being allowed to wear shorts', and 'school boys not being allowed to wear shorts'. In both cases the goal is 'to be allowed to wear shorts', not 'I'm wearing a skirt because I want to wear a skirt'.

To have any lasting impact there needs to be a clear motive that one is wearing a skirt, because wearing a skirt is the end goal.

The problem is the direction of travel to trousers for all, both male and female. In the school where I am a governor, the change in uniform policy to gender free, giving the boys the opportunity of skirts and dresses, was in response to a request by girls to wear shorts, which were originally only allowed for boys. I suggested just having a range of clothes which were acceptable for any student, which was accepted.

I think the object should be to allow choice in how anybody dresses. So in discussing a uniform, resist the move to everybody being in trousers, just give everybody a range of clothes to choose from.

I don't think you will ever get back to Roman times when all males and females were wearing skirts, mainly because the women are not in skirts any more and appear not to want to except for odd occasions. However, there are now so many guys wearing skirts for religious or culture reasons, here in London, that me or you just fit in with no problem.

[Stu]

In the school where I am a governor, the change in uniform policy to gender free, giving the boys the opportunity of skirts and dresses, was in response to a request by girls to wear shorts, which were originally only allowed for boys.

I have encountered this issue in schools in my area. This often starts with girls demanding the same rights as boys to wear trousers, or maybe shorts. There are pressure groups that support them in the name of equality. But then the school's uniform policy becomes lopsided, as happened with my son's school some years ago where it said the options for girls was "navy pleated skirt; culottes; school pinafore dress; navy trousers; cotton summer dress from 1st May. For boys" "navy trousers". No equality there - so they declared that children of either gender could wear anything from the uniform list. Of course, this was a deception. They knew perfectly well that the boys were only going to wear trousers and the Deputy Head said as much in a PTA when he mentioned that he "doubted any of the lads would be foolhardy enough to turn up in a skirt, ha ha!" In other words, if one did, the other kids would humiliate and bully him and that would deter anyone else. So much for equality. When I raised the fact that girls could wear trousers, the Deputy Head said they could wear specific trousers designed for girls and marketed as being girls' garments. He said nobody would expect them to wear boys' garments. So I asked what if a boy wanted to wear a skirt, pinafore or summer dress? Are you suggesting they should buy girls' garments? His response was that any boy who wanted to wear such garments was obviously trans so that's exactly what he would want to wear. In other words, girls wanting to wear trousers were just making a fashion choice but boys wanting to wear skirts were all trans (Mr Lipstick). He couldn't see his own double standards.

[Mouse]

He couldn't see his own double standards.

Since I attend the school always in a skirt, whether in the day or evening at governor meetings, it is hard for anyone to say that the option for boys is not available, since I am an example of a straight MIS.

[crfriend]

I think the object should be to allow choice in how anybody dresses. So in discussing a uniform, resist the move to everybody being in trousers, just give everybody a range of clothes to choose from.

I agree wholeheartedly, but because of societal inertia do not believe we're ever likely to get to that point -- especially with the general trajectory being "trousers for everybody". Pretty soon the West will look like Mao's China.

[Mouse]

especially with the general trajectory being "trousers for everybody". Pretty soon the West will look like Mao's China.

I think you under estimate the female kind. My daughter and other females I observe on the tube, use skirts as they wish. Especially in summer, skirts and dresses come out on a certain percentage of females. I think they have full choice to wear what ever they choose and us males are just asking for a similar choice. In my life I choose to wear a skirt everyday and I don't have any problems. I know I am odd, but I get accepted everywhere I go and I don't feel I am loosing out anywhere. I think I benefit enormously from exercising my clothing freedom. I am much happier than I was and other people notice this in me.

[Mouse]

When I raised the fact that girls could wear trousers, the Deputy Head said they could wear specific trousers designed for girls and marketed as being girls' garments. He said nobody would expect them to wear boys' garments. So I asked what if a boy wanted to wear a skirt, pinafore or summer dress? Are you suggesting they should buy girls' garments? His response was.......

I don't mean to put any pressure on you, but I wonder what his response would have been if you were in a skirt asking the question? (I am assuming that you were in trousers)

[Stu]

When I raised the fact that girls could wear trousers, the Deputy Head said they could wear specific trousers designed for girls and marketed as being girls' garments. He said nobody would expect them to wear boys' garments. So I asked what if a boy wanted to wear a skirt, pinafore or summer dress? Are you suggesting they should buy girls' garments? His response was.......

I don't mean to put any pressure on you, but I wonder what his response would have been if you were in a skirt asking the question? (I am assuming that you were in trousers)

Yes, I was in trousers. I suspect his response to me would have been somewhat different. He might have thought I had some vested interest.