The New York Times: Defining Nonbinary Work Wear

[Coder]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/09/styl ... ttire.html

https://archive.ph/fZT06

While most of us don't understand or identify with non-binary identities, I think they are expanding clothing options for all of us. I realize they present an image and identity that doesn't mesh with a desire to wear clothes without having a gendered reason, yet any non-conforming individual will pave the way for greater acceptance.

[STEVIE]

Hi Coder,,
Right now I am in the office canteen lunch nearly over.
Black skirt, grey tights and red top.
Pretty much standard workwear for me.
If it gets labelled non-binary then so be it, frankly I don't give a damn.
Fashion freedom is a 2 way street and men have to stop being obsessed by false perceptions of maleness.
Steve.

[FLbreezy]

Most of those looks were pretty good, IMO.

This bit was interesting:

“One of the tricky things is that the norms of gendered dress keep shifting,” he said. “Determining what’s appropriate is always kind of a moving target.” As an example, he cited rules prohibiting women from wearing flapper-style short dresses to work during the 1920s.

“At the time, people said, ‘It’s not feminine, it’s masculine, but also it’s way too sexy,’” Professor Ford added. “But today we’d see that as recognizably feminine.”

I'd never think of a flapper dress as mascuilne, but I suppose in context of what preceded it I can see that now: Unstructured, short, tunic-like.

[Midas]

I don’t really see how a non-binary category expands our choices. Once the decision to wear skirts and dresses has been taken, the available choice is as wide as it gets.

What it might do is to encourage some of those who are nervous about going out in public to give it a try. The problem is that it’s just another label to stick on people and labels are partly what puts people off.

The whole point is just to be yourself. The fact you’re in a dress or skirt should be irrelevant.

[Barleymower]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/09/styl ... ttire.html

https://archive.ph/fZT06

While most of us don't understand or identify with non-binary identities, I think they are expanding clothing options for all of us. I realize they present an image and identity that doesn't mesh with a desire to wear clothes without having a gendered reason, yet any non-conforming individual will pave the way for greater acceptance.

My daughter is non-binary. I hear alot about life as a non-binary child. Essentially they don't identify as male or female. Boy one day girl the next or neither. I'm OK with it and don't really understand why there is negative connotations about non-binaries.

[Coder]

Most of those looks were pretty good, IMO.

I agree - some of the looks intrigued me, I even liked the sweater dress (but it would need to be longer). Though, I've never found a dress that I feel right in, so probably not going to be my style anytime soon.

I'd never think of a flapper dress as mascuilne, but I suppose in context of what preceded it I can see that now: Unstructured, short, tunic-like.

Same conclusion - must have seen them more as tunics. I would though:

• Like to see the research behind this

• It would make sense to me (as a tunic) if they wore leggings in the flapper era

[Coder]

My daughter is non-binary. I hear alot about life as a non-binary child. Essentially they don't identify as male or female. Boy one day girl the next or neither. I'm OK with it and don't really understand why there is negative connotations about non-binaries.

I write disclaimers like this because I am trying to get people to focus on the fashion elements of the story, and not the elements that usually raise disagreements here. It's a pre-emptive strike, as they say. Often we can't see the forest for the trees.

[steamman]

If someone else decided to “label me” as non binary wearing a skirt or dress, I couldn’t care less. If anyone asked, I’d simply tell them I am a guy who likes wearing skirts and dresses. No big deal, it’s all going in the right direction. People on here over analyse everything, what isn’t necessarily realised is that we are just another minority group.

[Coder]

If someone else decided to “label me” as non binary wearing a skirt or dress, I couldn’t care less. If anyone asked, I’d simply tell them I am a guy who likes wearing skirts and dresses. No big deal, it’s all going in the right direction. People on here over analyse everything, what isn’t necessarily realised is that we are just another minority group.

This is how I've been trying to train my mindset. It's difficult, but ultimately it does not matter what other people think.

[new2skirts]

If someone else decided to “label me” as non binary wearing a skirt or dress, I couldn’t care less. If anyone asked, I’d simply tell them I am a guy who likes wearing skirts and dresses. No big deal, it’s all going in the right direction. People on here over analyse everything, what isn’t necessarily realised is that we are just another minority group.

This is how I've been trying to train my mindset. It's difficult, but ultimately it does not matter what other people think.

Today I went into a thrift shop, (wearing a grey pencil skirt) and picked a lovely chino skirt, more for summer as quite thin material a denim mini as well, something of a change for me, and the lady in the shop said I could try them on which was lovely. Popped into the changing room, slipped them on, they fit well, so bought them! She could clearly see I'm a guy, but there was no issue with all these labels, we can get bogged down in this too much. The more conservative types recoil at the thought of such labels, but if it helps to normalize my fashion choices, who cares?

Take a look at r/menskirts on Reddit, just guys wearing their choice of clothes without angst or worrying about identification. Some may be manly in their look (denim straight skirts) others may be the other end of the scale, but all identify as men. The key is just getting on with what you need to do

For work, keep your hem at your knee, it will rise when you sit. Skirtyscot has the best corporate wardrobe for pointers

[moonshadow]

I'm OK with it and don't really understand why there is negative connotations about non-binaries.

Those who get it, get it, those who don't, never will.

As more me personally, I don't waste breath shouting at the wind.

[Jim]

I don’t really see how a non-binary category expands our choices. Once the decision to wear skirts and dresses has been taken, the available choice is as wide as it gets. t.

It might expand one's choices in situations with a dress code such as a work environment.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I don’t really see how a non-binary category expands our choices. Once the decision to wear skirts and dresses has been taken, the available choice is as wide as it gets.
...
The whole point is just to be yourself. The fact you’re in a dress or skirt should be irrelevant.

I think it could expand your choices, if you struggle with the identification of skirts as feminine, and find yourself constrained to wear "masculine" skirts and kilts, even though you might prefer to be less restricted. Identifying as non-binary, even if only internally without adopting it as a public label, incorporates not-constrained-to-be-masculine (because opposed to the stereotype) but also not-constrained-to-identify-as-feminine. I'm not really comfortable with the label for myself, but as a man exploring androgynous or non-gendered clothing, it might be honest to own up to being non-binary at least in part.

I guess its a perspective thing. Some men want to claim skirts as masculine; others want to claim feminine (or non-gendered) self-expression for men.

[Barleymower]

I don’t really see how a non-binary category expands our choices. Once the decision to wear skirts and dresses has been taken, the available choice is as wide as it gets.
...
The whole point is just to be yourself. The fact you’re in a dress or skirt should be irrelevant.

I think it could expand your choices, if you struggle with the identification of skirts as feminine, and find yourself constrained to wear "masculine" skirts and kilts, even though you might prefer to be less restricted. Identifying as non-binary, even if only internally without adopting it as a public label, incorporates not-constrained-to-be-masculine (because opposed to the stereotype) but also not-constrained-to-identify-as-feminine. I'm not really comfortable with the label for myself, but as a man exploring androgynous or non-gendered clothing, it might be honest to own up to being non-binary at least in part.

I guess its a perspective thing. Some men want to claim skirts as masculine; others want to claim feminine (or non-gendered) self-expression for men.

You have nothing to own up to. All humans are non binary to some degree. Like everything human it is a spectrum.

We seem to be being ruled over by a few that are firmly at extreme ends. We are also ruled over by those who present themselves as firmly masculine or feminine but under the surface there is a frightened little girl/boy waiting to be found out and laughed at.

Some days (today) I'm out there chopping wood and shooting shot guns in jeans. Other days I could not get through the day if I was not wearing my favourite skirt and cosy jumper and cooking a nice dinner. I feel like I dont fit in anywhere. These days I just go with it and ignore the stares.

[gender free universe]

So, it is appearing that to have access to something other than slacks in the business world, one likely has to identify as something other than male (non-binary), because of reasons.