I thought this was a good twitter thread

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
renesm1
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I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by renesm1 »

I read this Twitter thread and it almost conceptualises something I've thought about for ages.

Read it and tell me what you think!

https://twitter.com/racheline_m/status/ ... 8751591429
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Bodycon
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by Bodycon »

renesm1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:24 am
Read it and tell me what you think!
It is the same basic position which can be applied to all groups / sub-groups etc in society right down to the type of music you listen to or football team you support, which are, lets face it, pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things, but constantly crop up in the news where someone has been beaten up etc. because of it.

The tweet is correct but it doesn't address human instinct and societies' need to pigeon hole people; something that is built in to us from birth. We need to understand that inherited fear of difference and work with it over time rather than simply railing against it. I think the younger generations are getting it, but they are not the law makers.....yet....
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by Myopic Bookworm »

renesm1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:24 am
Read it and tell me what you think!
Yes, some useful thoughts here.

As part of my attempt to rationalize my current fashion choices, I include the notion that I am trying to familiarize people with the idea of men in skirts, to encourage a dismantling of the relentless and highly restrictive gendering of costume. Yes, there are people who wear skirts because they wish to express their identity as trans-female, but you don't have to be female, or trans, or gay, to wear a skirt (just as you don't have to be male, or trans, or lesbian, to wear trousers).
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by moonshadow »

" it’s about control."

This person has said basically what I've been screaming for a number of years now, just with more details words. This is one of the main reasons I stand by trans-people despite my own misunderstanding of what it means to be trans, and trans-people's misunderstanding of what it means to be me (we don't understand each other).

But at the end of the day, we're all hitched to the same ideals of individual freedom, and when the state, or the community at large strips one of us from our freedom and/or dignity, the other also suffers in the same way.

Many people like to live in a free society where they can live their lives as they please, however lots within that number don't like the idea of other people enjoying their own personal freedoms.

Unfortunately, the author was preaching to the choir... it will not sway a single mind.

In the traditional sense, to be "liberal" was to hold to the ideals of individual liberty, and is the basis of what it means to be (or what it used to mean) a "libertarian". These days we have conservative libertarians. The two words are in direct conflict with one another. To be conservative is to hold to a strict rule of authority rooted in tradition and traditional customs. Each one has their merit and virtues, however irresponsible, and rigid clinging to either ideology can lead to cultural disaster. There is always a place for tradition and customs, but not to the point where it strangles our spirit and souls. There must be a balance, and in today's world it seems that balance is vanishing fast. More and more we must identify as "one or the other". On the one hand we grapple with the ultra restrictive "wokeness" and "political correctness", cancel culture, etc that is consuming what is considered the "liberal" side (side note, they're not really liberals, they're just radial leftist). On the other we have a growing rigid enforcement of customary tradition with no room for self expression. Both extremes are highly authoritarian and a danger to overall freedom.

The media has, and continues to fan the flames to further divide the people into warring factions, all in the name of ratings which lead to profit. The small number of people who run this world care not.

At any rate, in a couple more decades, there will be no more women. There will just be cis-gendered men and trans-men. Femininity will be completely gone. Males will be forbidden to express femininity and females won't have the desire because they can't compete in a hyper-masculine society. It will be a sad day, and will leave a big hole in our souls. I hope I'm dead and gone by then.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:56 am
At any rate, in a couple more decades, there will be no more women. There will just be cis-gendered men and trans-men. Femininity will be completely gone. Males will be forbidden to express femininity and females won't have the desire because they can't compete in a hyper-masculine society. It will be a sad day, and will leave a big hole in our souls. I hope I'm dead and gone by then.
Hi Moon.
Man, that statement, sincerely held is way too pessimistic.
Bear in mind that simple indomitable spirit or sheer bloody mindedness rises best when freedoms are under threat.
Uncomfortable and possibly even deadly though the process may be, we can evolve and grow away from the current mess.
Hate to say this but your homeland is doing your soul no favours at all..
Take care.
Steve.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:56 am
In the traditional sense, to be "liberal" was to hold to the ideals of individual liberty, and is the basis of what it means to be (or what it used to mean) a "libertarian". These days we have conservative libertarians. The two words are in direct conflict with one another. To be conservative is to hold to a strict rule of authority rooted in tradition and traditional customs.
Not quite. The opposite of liberal is authoritarian. The opposite of conservative is progressive. They can be combined in different ways:
libertarian conservatism (more American), conservative liberalism (still in some places) and liberal conservatism (predominant in Europe).

That said, most conservative parties do tend to authoritarian but it's not a given. In two-party systems (eg UK & US) this can take on extreme forms.
moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:56 am
At any rate, in a couple more decades, there will be no more women. There will just be cis-gendered men and trans-men. Femininity will be completely gone. Males will be forbidden to express femininity and females won't have the desire because they can't compete in a hyper-masculine society.
I think you're overly pessimistic. "Woke" does not exist outside of social media. The "culture wars" are there to sell newspapers but have little impact otherwise. This too shall pass. Well, maybe not in America, but I don't expect the rest of the world to worry about it. Give it a generation and we'll be wondering what the fuss was about.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by alexthebird »

rode_kater wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:39 am
"Woke" does not exist outside of social media.
It's easy to underestimate the progressive left because they do such a good job of making themselves and their positions look foolish. However, if instead of using the word "woke" you think of people who share similar views on climate change, race, income inequality, wealth inequality, the role government/society should play in regulating human behavior, and the right of people to have a meaningful voice in their own communities things can look a little different. You only have to recall the Occupy movement or the reaction to the George Floyd killing to see what happens when people with that perspective are galvanized. Of course neither of those events actually accomplished anything concrete and were more like blowing off steam than anything else and when it was all over and the TV cameras went away, people stopped paying attention.

Any it is easy to stop paying attention because the majority of people from the progressive left are young and most young people don't vote and don't get involved in their local communities. But young people eventually get jobs and begin to settle down and sometimes get involved in their communities. Gen-Zs and young millennials may not remain so progressive when they mature, but I'd bet that the next generation of 30- and 40- somethings is quite different than the last.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by moonshadow »

STEVIE wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:37 am
Hate to say this but your homeland is doing your soul no favours at all..
No sir... they. are. not.
alexthebird wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am
Any it is easy to stop paying attention because the majority of people from the progressive left are young and most young people don't vote and don't get involved in their local communities. But young people eventually get jobs and begin to settle down and sometimes get involved in their communities. Gen-Zs and young millennials may not remain so progressive when they mature, but I'd bet that the next generation of 30- and 40- somethings is quite different than the last.
Well, I've tried to get involved, my problem is that in my region there seem to be two main groups... the people who worship at the altar of Donald Trump (90%) and the communist (10%).

And yes, I joined a local group of Democrats online once and after a short while it became clear to me... they do indeed advocate for full blown communism. I politely bowed out...

There are no good choices...

I suppose my biggest issue is that I'm not tribal or clannish. I just want to be free, and I loathe the idea of having to join a faction to be so..... I can't stand factions and clans. I'm not a Trumpie or a commie... where do I rate?
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by Ray »

I really don’t think you can equate democrat with communist. The latter is way further left than democrats.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by rode_kater »

alexthebird wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am
rode_kater wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:39 am
"Woke" does not exist outside of social media.
It's easy to underestimate the progressive left because they do such a good job of making themselves and their positions look foolish.
followed by
alexthebird wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am
Of course neither of those events actually accomplished anything concrete and were more like blowing off steam than anything else and when it was all over and the TV cameras went away, people stopped paying attention.
Looks like you proved my point that they're rather ineffective and hardly the catastrophe that some people so loudly proclaim.
alexthebird wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am
But young people eventually get jobs and begin to settle down and sometimes get involved in their communities. Gen-Zs and young millennials may not remain so progressive when they mature, but I'd bet that the next generation of 30- and 40- somethings is quite different than the last.
Well, they'd like the settle down, except housing is ridiculously expensive. You can't expect young people to support capitalism when the system is rigged to ensure they can't get any capital. If the next generation wasn't very different from the previous one I'd be worried. Every generation says the next generation is going to destroy everything. It's tradition.

We're getting there though. The average age of an MP here is 45 years, so almost a millenial. For an MEP it's 49.5 years. For a UK MP it's 51 and for the US Congress it's 59(!) years.

The average member of congress is a babyboomer. Why am I not surprised.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by moonshadow »

Ray wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:07 pm
I really don’t think you can equate democrat with communist. The latter is way further left than democrats.
I didn't say it first, they [the local Democrats] did. Right out of the horse's mouth. Wished me well as I bid them good day and hoped that "the plight of the proletariat may soften my heart" and called me "comrade".
rode_kater wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:25 pm
Well, they'd like the settle down, except housing is ridiculously expensive. You can't expect young people to support capitalism when the system is rigged to ensure they can't get any capital. If the next generation wasn't very different from the previous one I'd be worried. Every generation says the next generation is going to destroy everything. It's tradition.

We're getting there though. The average age of an MP here is 45 years, so almost a millenial. For an MEP it's 49.5 years. For a UK MP it's 51 and for the US Congress it's 59(!) years.

The average member of congress is a babyboomer. Why am I not surprised.
Sorry, I just can't be so optimistic. Those weren't boomers storming the capital back in 2021. They were mostly millennials and x'ers.

My generation (millennial) and younger are mostly poorly educated, broke, and desperate. It's a highly volatile combination.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:41 am
Ray wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:07 pm
I really don’t think you can equate democrat with communist. The latter is way further left than democrats.
I didn't say it first, they [the local Democrats] did. Right out of the horse's mouth. Wished me well as I bid them good day and hoped that "the plight of the proletariat may soften my heart" and called me "comrade".
Ok, so there are communists who are Democrats, doesn't mean Democrats are communists. Yay for big-tent parties I guess? It would be helpful if the group near you could form an actual communist party and run on that ticket, but the US electoral system makes that a non-starter. And changing the US electoral system I think will happen sometime between when hell freezes over and the heat death of the universe.

But yeah, the use of the word "comrade" is kind of a giveaway.

(Our communist party disappeared in the early '90s, though some fragments do have a presence in some local councils. We still have a socialist party which attracts 6-9% of the vote. Though they're on the way out too. I don't think they will vanish entirely, the committed communists/socialists need something to vote for.)
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

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rode_kater wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:41 am
Ok, so there are communists who are Democrats, doesn't mean Democrats are communists.
Same goes for Republicans and fascists, I guess.

IMHO one reason for the continued underperformance of the UK's Labour party is its reluctance to let go of historic associations with hard-line socialism. Middle-class people like me do not sit easily with a party that sings "The Red Flag" at its annual conference, even though its policies are generally rather moderate social-democratic ones.
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by moonshadow »

rode_kater wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:41 am
Ok, so there are communists who are Democrats, doesn't mean Democrats are communists. Yay for big-tent parties I guess? It would be helpful if the group near you could form an actual communist party and run on that ticket, but the US electoral system makes that a non-starter. And changing the US electoral system I think will happen sometime between when hell freezes over and the heat death of the universe.
I guess it's just complicated. I'll admit it was a bit taken back. I knew Democrats were for organized labor and universal Healthcare, and sure I'll grant that both of these are somewhat socialist and socialism is considered the gateway to communism, but even I was taken back when I spoke with actual Russell County residents that supported full blown U.S.S.R. communism with a complete elimination of all private means of production... and private property! :shock:

Everything I've ever worked for becoming communal property....?

Nope... it was at that point "Moon Shadow left the chat"...

Frankly, I'd rather have MAGA Trump. Yes... I am that opposed to full blown communism. If the last two years have taught me anything, it's that if you give people a stripend and tell them they don't have to work for it... most of them won't!

I didn't used to be so adamantly opposed, but two years of fighting constant supply chain shortages and the inflation that is partly the result of people being told they know longer have to work, thus contributing to the labor shortage and driving up prices, in combination with ridiculous minimum wage standards, not to mention the constant burnout I struggle with because it's hard to find anyone willing to work anymore... yeah... f--k communism!
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Re: I thought this was a good twitter thread

Post by Bodycon »

Myopic Bookworm wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:47 pm
rode_kater wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:41 am
Ok, so there are communists who are Democrats, doesn't mean Democrats are communists.
Same goes for Republicans and fascists, I guess.

IMHO one reason for the continued underperformance of the UK's Labour party is its reluctance to let go of historic associations with hard-line socialism. Middle-class people like me do not sit easily with a party that sings "The Red Flag" at its annual conference, even though its policies are generally rather moderate social-democratic ones.
The problem for the Labour party in the UK is that to get voted in they need to emulate the Conservatives (think Blair / Brown, then Milliband) to an extent and that is too far for many Labour supporters. The recent backlash against this was Corbin, but he had too much baggage, especially with the unions, so election results were terrible even after he was deposed. What I find disappointing is that Political parties bend their policies in order to win votes, then do whatever they like - right down to local councils. No-one has the guts to try and persuade the voters to vote for them on the basis of their true policies (the ones they will carry out anyway).

I detest everything about the current crop of Conservatives, their lying, cheating nepotism and sheer ignorance of the people in the country beyond their sphere is astounding; yet people do actually vote for them.... Stockholm syndrome?

Ah, to be an egg seller in Grantham, I would be rich.
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