Choosing.....

[jeanfor]

When you start wearing skirts you have to deal with something most men do not do, matching top with bottom, shoes, socks ...... I have found myself taking time to decide which skirt to wear with what. It is fun though. I also found myself liking a skirt better at a later time then when I got it. I guess this must depends on one's mood

[Since1982]

Jeanfor said: When you start wearing skirts you have to deal with something most men do not do, matching top with bottom, shoes, socks ......

Why? Most of us are not trying to look like women. I see no reason to color co-ordinate our clothing as if we were. Unless, of course, in some cases, the men wearing skirts do want to look like women. Most men here though, don't seem to want to look womanly, just wearing a skirt for comfort rather than trousers/pants.

[couyalair]

What on earth makes you think it unmanly to coordinate your colours?
My father always did, and so do I.
If we want masculine skirts to be accepted, we can at least try to look smart, wearing a fitting outfit, not just a jumble of odds and ends, as if we put on our garments by accident.

Martin

[Uncle Al]

I color co-ordinate as well
Been doing that for as long as I can remember

Uncle Al

[jeanfor]

This is exactly what I was trying to convey.... Like trying to coordinate the skirt kilt with the top. Like, is the skirt a plain color or a plaid/tartan. If wearing a plaid skirt/kilt I may want to keep plain colors for the top, same for the tie. When I wear a skirt it is extremely important I am not looking like a clown....

[ethelthefrog]

I agree with most posters here. I've never particularly bothered coordinating when wearing trousers, but I find I'm taking rather more care when sizing up skirts and things to wear with them. I think Jeanfor has it right: I try not to look like a clown. Given that I'm already breaking norms by wearing a skirt, I think it's probably best to make the outfit work as a whole, so people can think "guy in a skirt? Looks good," rather than "Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!"

Paul.

[crfriend]

Coordinating colours for guys has been a time-honoured tradition for a good many decades, although usually it's a question of making sure that your leathers match (i.e. shoes, belt, and in extreme cases, scabbards and/or holsters). That said, the ability to identify what colour "goes with what" is important and in no way compromises one's "masculinity" -- in fact, I'd posit the opposite because the ability to do so allows one a greater range of expressitivity that the more timid male isn't up to.

I put one together this morning before heading out to luncheon with an old family friend and down to my computer-history group's monthly open house that consisted of my multi-grey and light purple plaid-on-the-bias skirt, black opaque legwear, black waistcoat, and red-wine coloured dress shirt. Initially, I viewed it as an improbable combination, but upon reflection decided to "risk it"; Sapphire, later in the day, commented that it worked very well and looked good -- and congratulated me for the guts to experiment and that I'm learning how things work!

So, it's not about being "girly" at all; it's about putting believeable looks together that grab the onlooker's brain and makes it go, "Wow! That looks good."

[Since1982]

I don't know where the word "manly" came from. Not from anything I said. So please don't attribute it to me. I just meant not looking "womanly." Co-ordinating clothes is a good idea, as long as it doesn't make you look "womanly," unless that IS what you want.

I do believe that certain outfits can be co-ordinated to look strong and masculine, no matter what the man is wearing on the bottom half. Be it pants or a skirt.

[Uncle Al]

Just because a person chooses to co-ordinate their clothing does not
automatically mean "Womanly". I co-ordinate my slacks and shirts so
I don't look sloppy. If I wear brown/tan/green slacks I choose a yellow
/light green/tan colored shirt. This color palette a still allows me
to 'mix-n-match' items with each other. Same for the red/blue/black's.

If I want to 'dress-up' I can always use the basic black slacks, white
shirt, say a forest green sport coat and a tie that compliments the coat.
Switch out the green for a medium dark blue with a light blue tie. I've
also used a dark blue coat with a vibrant red tie.

These are examples of color co-ordination in my wardrobe. This does
not make me "Womanly", just conscious of what I'm wearing so I don't
present myself in a sloven manor.

Uncle Al

[SkirtedViking]

Hummm,maybe we should get out of the masculinity complex and just enjoy looking good.

[STEVIE]

Lookig good is purely a matter of opinion. Here we test the boundaries, do not get misled by trivia. The quote simply reminds us we live in a society not purely of our own making.
Steve












Oh would that some giftie gie us to see wirselves as ithers see us. Robert Burns trans. Oh, that I had the gift to see myself from the viewpoint of my fellow man. He may even have said person, if that had occured

[crfriend]

Hummm,maybe we should get out of the masculinity complex and just enjoy looking good.

We have crossed swords on this before, SV, and I will put it to you again: the reason that masculinity comes to the fore here is because it is important to us. We are men, and I suspect that most of us are quite happy being men. To insinuate that we have some sort of "complex" that, by implication, needs "treatment" just by virtue of being male really smacks of double-standard. Not to put too fine a point on it, would the same logic prevail if the word "black" was swapped for "masculine"? I suspect it'd go over like a dead woodchuck at a dinner party.

As a rather curious type, I'm still waiting to see -- in imagery -- your particular style.

Looking good takes skill, and it takes work; making it all work within a male context -- especially when it involves "non-traditional" clothing -- is more difficult still if one does not want to not look foolish.

[AMM]

Hummm,maybe we should get out of the masculinity complex and just enjoy looking good.

... the reason that masculinity comes to the fore here is because it is important to us. We are men, and I suspect that most of us are quite happy being men.

I should also point out that there is a wide variety of interpretations of what "masculine look" means here at the Cafe.

For my part, I think that most of what people in my part of the world (USA) are talking about when they use the word "masculinity" is rubbish, and the little that is worth valuing is as worth valuing in women as in men.

But

When I choose clothes, whether skirts, trousers, or anything else, I have to deal with the fact that I have a very male-pattern body. Male-pattern baldness, male-pattern fat accumulations, beard, etc. The reason I don't try to look like a woman and I don't choose fashions that emphasize womanly features is that it would be an utter failure. I would just look ridiculous, and I don't want to look ridiculous. I would have just as much success trying to dress up the family dog to look like a woman.

To the extent that I say "I am a man," I'm really just stating the obvious: my body is pretty obviously male, even when I'm fully dressed, and I grew up the sort of imprinting and indoctrination that males in my culture grow up with. I'm "happy being a man" to the extent that I'm not convinced that SRS (sexual reassignment surgery) would improve my life. (On the other hand, if someone had a magic wand that could rewrite the past so that I would have grown up female, I don't know what I'd decide. Maybe I'm better off not having to.)

I don't say that I am trying to come up with a "masculine look," but if I did, I would mean that I am trying to come up with a look that doesn't fight my body and my features, but tries to show them off to best advantage. Which is pretty much what women generally do when they pick clothes.

If you look at some of my pictures, you will see that I don't shrink from trying out things that I think most of the guys here would reject as very, very unmasculine. And more than "trying out" -- I don't think I've posted anything that I haven't worn out in public, usually many times. But I won't wear something out in public until I've convinced myself that it "works" with my body and with how I feel about myself. And that means working with -- not against -- a rather blatantly male body, one which contains a not particularly "feminine" personality.

[ethelthefrog]

Oh would that some giftie gie us to see wirselves as ithers see us. Robert Burns trans. Oh, that I had the gift to see myself from the viewpoint of my fellow man. He may even have said person, if that had occured

He said "...to see ourselves(wirselves) as others(ithers) see us". He didn't say man, woman, or even person. The consummate gender-equal saying.

[crfriend]

I don't say that I am trying to come up with a "masculine look," but if I did, I would mean that I am trying to come up with a look that doesn't fight my body and my features, but tries to show them off to best advantage. Which is pretty much what women generally do when they pick clothes.

Thank you so much for that, AMM, as it crystalises my thoughts on the matter quite likely better than I could have put it myself.

So, there it is -- in black and white -- to ponder. This is something I've been working on for a number of years, and I try very hard to pick my rigs so they flatter not just my body but also reflect some of what I think is inside my head.

If I felt the need to abandon convention even more than I already do, I could put on five-inch stiletto heels, a chiffon ball-gown, and a tiara; however, I rather suspect that I would not recognise myself in a mirror (another bellweather as to whether we've "crossed a line") and my pals would be in hysterics if I showed up so attired. Recall that if I did that I'd be pushing towards seven feet tall, still have a beard, and like many other tall chaps still have very large feet; the look would be incongruous at best and comical at worst.

One of the compelling things about AMM's assorted rigs -- some of which, like that wonderful "rainbow skirt", push boundaries quite hard -- is that they work: they work on his frame, for his personality (from what I've noticed by meeting him), and just generally for him. My hypothetical rig above would probably look as incongruous on him as it would on me, and likely elicit the same sorts of reactions from bystanders -- who do notice these things, I'll add.

Thank you, sir, for setting the train back on the tracks.