Pirates in skirts

[owen]

Nicothoe's Pics 'n' Looks thread started developing into a chat about pirates in skirts, so I thought it would be better to move that bit to a new thread.

Here's a few pictures of productions of The Pirates of Penzance through the years: http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/html/doc.html .

Notice that in all the productions before 1929, the pirates are very definitely wearing skirts and tights, and it's only the goodie wusses who are in trousers! Who's effeminate there?

[owen]

A couple more pictures on this page too: http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/html/ .

[crfriend]

Notice that in all the productions [of Pirates of Penzance]before 1929, the pirates are very definitely wearing skirts and tights, and it's only the goodie wusses who are in trousers! Who's effeminate there?

I rather like the upper left shot of the pirates from the 1926 production. I suspect I'd wear something similar to that in a heartbeat. Shot (1) from 1880 is a nice one, too, although personally I'd forego the long boots.

However, in the real world, I suspect wearing a skirt whilst trying to operate a sailing ship would not be such a good idea. The coulotte-style trousers Skip mentioned could work reasonably well, but an out-and-out skirt I suspect not. Recall that sailing ships for the time were devillishly complex devices with bits of moving kit that could kill one (and did) dead pretty much without warning -- and getting loose flowing clothing tangled up in the rigging -- especially the running rigging --could have dire consequences.

As far as the fabric used for sailors' costumes was concerned, historically it would have been the same fabric used for the sails -- most probably after it'd had worn out from being used for propulsion. This would have had a two-fold effect of (1) being more economical for the vessel's owners and (2) would have made any garments so constructed actually wearable. Even then, the fabric would still have been very heavy and difficult to work with. Recall that sailors of the time had to know how to sew -- they needed the skills to repair the sails.

But skirts? Historically, I tend to doubt it -- at least while on watch at sea. Ashore -- especially in the tropics -- I can see it, but in the middle of a February night's gale in the North Atlantic? No.

[JRMILLER]

Well, now I can justify my pirate and skirt outfits, thanks!

Just watched an old movie "Solomon and Sheba" with Yul Brynner as Solomon and Gina Lollobrigida as Sheba (she is very hot). I have never seen so many guys running around in skirts and dresses before. All different colors, styles, etc. The costume designed must have had a lot of fun creating this. For the most part, the outfits worked quite well, especially the common man outfits. However, most of the outfits for the government officials were pretty silly and over the top. Overall, however, an enjoyable escape from 20th century drab. I recommend the movie for that reason alone. Oh yea, did I mention that Sheba was very hot?

[nicothoe]

My initial reaction to the "pirates don't wear skirts" comment was "pirates can wear what the hell they want!"

I am reminded of a question in the boardgame Cranium, that asked "What is the Fonz afraid of?" Three of the answers were something along the lines of
- not having a date, falling of his bike, having a bad hair day. Even if you don't know the correct answer, the idea that the Fonz could possibly fear not having a date is ridiculous. HE IS THE FONZ!!!!! This is a character so full of bravado and confidence, that none of these answers are plausible!!!

Even if pirates didn't historically wear skirts, who in their right mind is going to tell them they can't? They're pirates! Cut-throats! Sailors who face the dangers of the seven seas!! Their masculinity is not in question, even if they are wearing the latest skirt from Jean-Paul Gaultier!!!

[owen]

Arr me hearties, it seems that Sunday 19th September be International Talk Like a Pirate Day. So why don't we also make it Skirt Like a Pirate Day, in honour of those fearless fashion freedom fighters of yore?

[Brandy]

I will make another observation. In 1880 it was easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys. The good guys all wore skirts, the bad guys all wore trousers.

in 1980 one hundred years later, there were only bad guys and women. All the guys wore trousers. It seemed to happen between 1926 & 1929.

-- Brandy

[Since1982]

Here's some trousers/pants/pantaloons/sailor pants info I picked up on the web

Pantaloon first appeared as an English word in the 1600's and from the Italian comedy character Pantaleone who wore the first loose "clowns pants". Eventually the characters name came to mean the pants he wore. In England pants still refers only to underwear.

The French revolution of 1789 was also a revolt against breeches as being too upper class. The country peasant very loose trouser look was in.

Trousers probably derived from the words trousers-- drawers, trousses--trunk hose, and/or trousse--to cover, truss. Trousers were worn over breeches when horseback riding to keep the more formal clothes clean.

Sailors had been wearing the looser fit work trousers since the 1580s since they allowed them to roll up the legs for wading ashore or climbing rigging.
In 1846 Sir Harry Lumsden, commanding as English troop in Punjab, India traded in his bright white trousers for pajama bottoms to find relief from the heat. To disguise them he colored them to blend with the local terrain using mazari, a native plant. Thus the birth of Khaki, the Hindu word for "dust". As a by product, Lumsden discovered that the new Khaki pants were more suitable in battle than the white pants, and red tunic. Blending in was good. Khaki is a color, but is now synonymous with a military twill pant.

Here I sit in my twill khaki skirt, thinking about the past.

[Big and Bashful]

As somebody who sails on a tallship regularly, I can't think of any of the running rigging which would catch a skirt. The blocks are all either too low, at deck level, or the lines are pulled through guides well above head height. I am also sure I have seen pirates in film and tv wearing some sort of skirt, but can't remember where.

Ahoy etc.!