Hotel restaurant discrimination?

[Charlie]

I've just returned from a holiday on the Greek island of Corfu, where I encountered what I consider to be positive discrimination against men, although most men wouldn't see it that way.
The hotel in question is the Elea Beach Hotel in Dassia, Corfu. At the entrance to the restaurant they have an oversize notice “requesting” men to wear long trousers. This notice consists of (wish I'd take a photo of it now) a drawing of a family in beachwear with the word “NO” across it, and a drawing of the wife and daughter in skirts (no male child), the man in long trousers, and the word “YES” across it . In addition, there are A4-sized printed posters in English and German saying “Gentlemen are requested to wear long trousers in the restaurant”. If that wasn't enough, there is also one of those 'prohibited' type of pictograms – red circle with a red slash across it, and a figure wearing shorts (could be male or female). Other hotels I've been in have had a small, discrete notice on the restaurant door requesting men to wear trousers.
I've always assumed that the word 'request' allows the requestee to grant or deny the request – this 'request' often translates as a polite form of 'must'.
Naturally, the women wore what they liked – long skirts, short skirts, cropped trousers, long trousers, shorts and all variations in between. I wore a sarong on the first evening, applying the principle that the long trouser rule is to prevent men showing their (in some people's eyes) horrible hairy legs - even though mine are smooth. The Maitre d' came over and indicated his trousers, saying something about 'pantaloons' (Greek for pants?). He may have been having a joke with me, but the message I received was “Wear trousers”. This soured the holiday. In the great scheme of things it's a trivial matter so, to avoid further argument, for subsequent evening meals I changed into trousers just before the meal, and out of them directly after the meal. Breakfasts and mid-day meals were OK and I wore a sarong with no trouble.
What puzzled me was that some men wore cropped trousers i.e. ending just below the knee or mid-calf. They were accepted, but I wouldn't call them long trousers. In other hotels I've seen men wearing these things and being told to change, while I've been accepted in a sarong. Yet another double standard.
I spent the meals seething at the outright discrimination. I hate discrimination in all its forms; it seems people haven't yet realised that there can be discrimination in clothing.
My wife filled in the customer satisfaction questionnaire. On the back I commented that as there was no similar clothing rule for the women, they were discriminating against men and, if the objective was to get men to cover their legs, why did they allow cropped trousers and not a tidy sarong. My comment will probably have no effect, but hopefully it will at least make them think.
Other than that the holiday was great. I wore a sarong on the flight out and most of the time while there. The sun was hot and a sarong is just nice to protect the legs against burning, and avoids the sweatiness associated with trousers.

Charlie

[Uncle Al]

Charlie,

I agree with you, I think you (and men in general) were discriminated
against.


Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[crfriend]

I agree with Charlie that discrimination -- in any form -- is corrosive and distasteful. I think what the hotel Management is going for, especially during the dinner meal, is an atmosphere of decorum, and I believe that laudable. However, the same rules of dignity should be evenly applied; both men and women should be tastefully attired, and "beach clothes" on either sex certainly do not count.

The sarong, if long, and accompanied with a jacket and tie, should certainly have been acceptable attire. I can see some snottiness with short skirts -- on both sexes -- as being "inappropriate", but longer styles, done tastefully, ought to pass muster.

Had this happend to me in a non-vacation setting, or possibly even in one, circumstances depending, I might well have said, "Thank you" to the Maitre D', headed back to my room, pulled out the cellular, booked another hotel, and checked out -- and followed up with a scathing postal letter to Corporate Headquarters on arriving home.

I suppose, in a perverse sort of way, this might have been Management expecting the male customers to "set the tone", but the execution was lousy. I don't mind being held to a high standard, but if that's going to be done to me involuntarily, I want everybody held to the same one. If I choose to hold myself to a higher standard than prevails locally, then that's my choice.

[cessna152towser]

One of the reasons why I never want to go on another cruise boat, I don't like being told I need to dress formal for dinner, not my idea of a relaxing holiday. Some countries are quite stuffy about what they like holidaymakers to wear, I wore long trousers throughout my visits to Morocco and Israel in deference to the cultures in these countries. On the other hand I have found Spain to be very skirt friendly (though you do need to watch out for pickpockets) - in a high class Spanish hotel where I have stayed three times a kilt with kneesocks (even on one occasion my denim Union kilt) was OK to wear for evening dinner where shorts were not acceptable.

[Skirt Chaser]

While I think the beachwear association was in their mind at seeing the sarong their laxity in permitting shorter trousers weakened their argument. Is there a vacation review website where you speak up to future patrons about the service you received?

[cessna152towser]

Is there a vacation review website where you speak up to future patrons about the service you received?

TripAdvisor might be a good place to post a review.

[tooslowprius]

I can agree with everyone here this is descrimination all the way. I mean let's put the skirt on the other way and change that sign to say women have to wear skirt's and dress's only do we not think that the women would not have a fit?

[Zorba]

One of the reasons why I never want to go on another cruise boat, I don't like being told I need to dress formal for dinner, not my idea of a relaxing holiday.

TOTALLY agree. Try Carnival - I wear skirts to dinner every nite on our annual cruise, including formal nite - they seem to like my formal skirt outfit.

[Since1982]

But "formal night" is still half of TTT in action...Trousers and Ties Tyranny. And usually Penguin colors. White shirt, black coat/skirt.

[SkirtedViking]

Yep, most men do not see fashion discirmination and there is more than enough of this, even if you work in an office you have to wear the long trousers in 40 C, while guess what no such rule for women.Also, I do not have long hair, but if a man has one he must go to work always on a ponytail while that is not applied to women.I can think of many more examples, sure women are descriminated on other fronts but after all this is a forum about our fight - man in skirts and so on - it is natural to discuss our issues.

[skirtingtherealissue]

Discrimination in any form is, unfortunately, a fact of life. It may or may not affect you in any particular situation and everyone will experience it at some point in their lives.

There will be times everyone will experience it because of their: Name, Age, Gender, Ethnic origin, Nationality, Size, Religious beliefs, Sexuality, or Personal lifestyle choices. How the individual deals with the discrimination says more about them than the discriminating bigots.

Thinking back c20 years, I was lucky enough to be treated to lunch by my then manager and supervisors, along with another colleague. We were taken to Simpsons in The Strand, London (Google it if you don't know it). Anyway, whilst waiting at reception for our table a male customer in front of us was having a heated discussion with the Maitre' D about his attire; slightly scruffy trousers and polo style open necked shirt (I think) - not particularly smart. The Maitre' D had already explained that the restaurant had a dress code and that "if Sir would like to choose a tie from the selection available to be borrowed" he would be shown to his table. Whilst this was happening we were attended to by another member of staff, which prompted the following from the aforementioned male - "But you're letting him in!"

The male (I'd use gentleman, but his manner indicated otherwise) pointed to my manager, who was of Afro-Carribbean descent, but wearing typical office attire - suit including tie. The Maitre' D, without skipping a beat, replied "Of course, he's dressed properly".

Anyway, fast forward 20 years and my schedule the past fortnight. A week working in Glasgow and another in Reading. Staying first at the Crowne Plaza, second at the Holiday Inn. Other than breakfasts before heading off to work (in a suit) I didn't wear a pair of trousers the whole time, even in the changing rooms for the pool! Comments - none (well, almost).

In the bar at the Crowne Plaza, I was approached by a wedding guest who was intrigued by my skirt. She had clearly been enjoying the wedding and happily chatted, although her introduction was to try to lift my skirt (I was seated). The next evening, all of the staff remembered who I was, what I was drinking, and chatted in a friendly manner when they had the chance.

Anyway, back to the topic of restaurants, the ones in both hotels were fine with me wearing a skirt, as were Yen and Red Onion in Glasgow and Forbury's, Dolce Vita, and LSQ2 in Reading. So if anyone's in these areas, I think you'll be ok.

[nicothoe]

One has to wonder who set the rules. In most cases it is going to be other men, and while most men have no qualms looking at the female figure regardless of their attire, they probably have reservations seeing guys with hairy legs. This was the theory put forward by by wife when I mentioned this post to her.

Is this really a sexist issue? Is the curvaceous female form really more appealing to the eye than the hairy male? Or is that simple the view of the male establishment?

On a different note, my girlfriend was once discriminated against because of the tattoos that cover her arms. At the coffee establishment were she worked, her manager told her to wear long sleeves, despite the scorching hot weather. She argued that this only made her sweat more, which is hardly benefits the customer, "Would you like a few drops of or perspiration in your coffee, sir?"

I guess it's all about the image we wish to display, which at the end of the day, is nothing more than a frivolous and biased opinion.

[Since1982]

although her introduction was to try to lift my skirt (I was seated).

I've had that happen twice in 6 years. In both cases I tried my level best to embarass the living daylights out of the female doing it. To the first one I said : "Do you ask strange men you don't know to drop their pants so you can see their privates?? This is no different." The second one succeeded in lifting it enough to see my underpants, I guess she expected commando, "I said: Well, is this the first time you've seen a man's privates? If so, please take a good look, you've earned it because I'm calling the Police and having you arrested."

A man does that to a woman, she can have him arrested for a felony assault, why should it be any different for a woman to do it to a skirted man? It shouldn't. The police Sgt. that came sat the woman down and gave here a good talking to, then asked me if I wanted to go forward with the arrest or assume she'd NEVER do anything like that again. I let her go. She was definitely embarrassed, as she should have been.

Some folks would have ignored it and not said anything, unfortunately, I'm a Scorpio and don't let insults slide. I like something a fellow Scorpio once told me. "Don't step on me and expect not to get stung".

[nicothoe]

When my wife was pregnant, the one thing she found most intrusive was other women coming up and feeling her belly. It was as if they had the inherent right to touch her in a deeply private way without her permission.

While I realize that men are more likely to the perpetrators of sexual assault or harassment, and that laws where put in place initially to protect women, those same rules must also apply to them.

Unfortunately we have this misconception that men will enjoy the harassment, or at minimum, not be offended by it.