doing research on how women gained the right to wear pants!

[tooslowprius]

I have been looking into ways to help us with are cause or right if you will to wear skirt. So I figured what better way then to start where women started wearing pants to see when it actually started! Here is some info I found so far!

Elizabeth Cady Stanton perhaps best summed up the significance of women wearing pants when she said, 'The question is no longer how do you look, but woman, how do you feel?"

We could almost take that quote and use it to are benifett! Here are some notable female's that made the push for women to be able to wear pants!

* Susan Molinari, a Congresswoman from New York, caused a stir as recently as 1990 when she became the first woman to wear pants on the floor of the House. Molinari was giving a speech to the U.S. House of Representatives and she expected what she said to make news. Instead, her outfit got all of the headlines.

* The powerful woman's group, The Committee of 200, an invitation-only group of successful women entrepreneurs, lists among its members the first woman to don pants for a White House event.

* Katherine Hepburn was the first actress to wear pants in a major motion picture.
* Mary Tyler Moore created a controversy, wearing capri pants as Dick Van Dyke's television wife Laura Petrie on The Dick Van Dyke Show.

* Charline Arthur, a country western star, was the first female singer to wear pants while performing on stage in the mid 1940s.

* During World War I, as women went to work in factories, they started to wear pants. However, the practice was still frowned upon.

* Marlene Dietrich furthered the cause when she wore pants in the 1930 film Morocco.
* Rosie the Riveter, the iconic symbol of women during World War II, made pants more popular for women.

* By the 1950s, jeans and capris had become standard attire for women.

Retrieved from "http://womens-fashion.lovetoknow.com/Fi ... Wear_Pants"

So now as you can see women turly didn't gain acceptance of wearing pants right away it took a long time and a lot of bold female's. Witch I hate to say it until we men get are "BALLS" back and start fighting some of these dress codes and things of that nature like women did it will be next to impossible for us men to gain acceptance of wearing skirts let alone getting a major manufature to make them just for men!

In the 1960s, André Courrèges introduced long trousers for women as a fashion item, leading to the era of the pantsuit and designer jeans and the gradual eroding of the prohibitions against girls and women wearing trousers in schools, the workplace, and fine restaurants.

Thanks to those women who stood up and proclaimed pants as womens wear we can
now strut our stuff in all kinds of pants, Even tuxedos.

Here is another quote from a differnt site that shows how women stood up for there right to wear pants. So until we men start standing up for are right to wear skirts we will never be able to gain acceptance. Nor will we be able to git rid of the ignorance that comes with seeing a guy in a skirt! I'm not sure how we get there, but one thing I do know is that all of these women when they did wear pants they still made them self's look like women! Ie makeup, heels and things of that sort. I did notice though in the one quote we are getting closer to having men in skirts seen as more acceptable. When we start seeing actor's like Vin Desial, and musician's out on stage wearing skirts, that does help us in gaining acceptance. We just have to make sure that when we are out and about in skirts that we are making are self's look as manly as possible, even thought we are wearing skirts that are made for women. It would be really nice if we could get a company like midas clothing to open a shop over here in the western world and start to make the skirts they make more of a mass produced item! I feel if they did that they would be able to lower the cost of bying one and make there self more redally known! I mean let's face it we guys don't like spending 100 dollors on a pair of pants just becuase they are a designer label! When we can by the same thing that looks almost the same for half the price! Now granted there are guys out there that can and will do that, but lets face it most of us Blue Colar workers can't afford to even think about that! So we translate that over to skirt's why would i want to pay 75 or a 100 dollors for a skirt that is "made for a man" when I can by one that is "made for a women" that looks almost the same and will cost half of the price. Yes I know we are keeping company's like midas open and aflot, but I just have a really hard time justifying paying that kind of money for anything skirt, pants, or what ever!

I'll get off of my soap box now! Just a little food for thought!

[JRMILLER]

We are overlooking an important issue, that is, over the past century, woman's work and woman's roles have changed. They are much more physical than their Victorian counterparts were. They engage in rigorous housework, gardening, climb utility poles, work in foundries and do most if not all of the kinds of things only men do. The adoption of pants was natural for their changing roles as they offer warmth and protection for these tasks.

Men wear pants for the same reasons.

Thus, our culture changed and presented an external motivation for women wearing pants.

There is no such external motivation encouraging men to wear skirts. A small minority of men have dabbled in skirts, discovered that they appealed to them for one reason or another, and chose to adopt them.

Sadly, until there is a driving, external force making skirts "a better alternative" for men, I don't think there will any large-scale movement of men into skirts.

Makes you wonder what historical forces first had men in skirt-like garments, for instance, the Roman tunics, the Celtic kilts and such. Perhaps it was a lack of good pants making technology, perhaps it was environmental. In any case, a study of the historical reasons for men wearing skirt like garments might yield some motivation for our generation -- and perhaps not.

Happy New Year....

[AMM]

The short answer to "how women gained the right to wear pants" is that they just started doing it.

There were women praising trousers for women for decades, even centuries, but they had no effect on women or society.

What happened was that sometime after World War II, large (and growing) numbers of women just started wearing trousers (and shorts), first at home and in the most casual settings (gardening, washing the car, etc.), and then in increasingly more formal settings. The Talking Heads of the time said the same dire things about women in trousers that they had generations earlier, but the women just didn't pay any attention any more.

They are much more physical than their Victorian counterparts were. They engage in rigorous housework, gardening, climb utility poles, work in foundries and do most if not all of the kinds of things only men do. The adoption of pants was natural for their changing roles as they offer warmth and protection for these tasks.

Women in past centuries probably did more demanding physical labor in the days when women always wore skirts than they do now. People nowadays underestimate how much you can do in a skirt. Few women or men nowadays have jobs that couldn't be done equally as well in a skirt as in trousers.

My own guess is that it has to do with the role of women in our society. Dresses and skirts were and are associated with feminine subservience and vulnerability, and as women have become less willing to live out their lives in a subservient position, they have rejected skirts and dresses. It's not a coincidence that the same people who want women to voluntarily enslave themselves to the men in their lives also want then to stop wearing trousers and shorts.

Why this change happened when it did is another question. But I can't help thinking of all the women who went to work during World War II and discovered the satisfaction of paying work and the independence it brings. When the war ended, these women were summarily thrown out of their jobs and sent home. Some accepted it or were even relieved, but many resented it, and resent it to this day.

[tooslowprius]

In doing somemore reading I found a comment from a women that hit the nail right on the head! Here is what she said!

If we reversed the roles and informed women that they were only allowed to wear skirts, then I can guarantee you that there would be riots in the streets, but, gentle lambs that they are, men meekly accept their prescribed uniform, formal suit, business suit, jeans and shirt, shorts and t shirt with barely a murmur of dissent. And to think they say it's a man's world, huh?

I her article she went on to say this!

Author's Note: I'm glad society is essentially a timid hypocritical construct held together by bonds of fear and violence, if it wasn't I'd have very little to write about.

I think her best quote is this one and it makes the most sense of all!

We're all in chains of our own making, and each subsequent generation buys into these same social morays, never stopping to think about them, too self obsessed and worrying about what the rest of the world will think to realize that they are making themselves prisoners in their own lives. And while we worry about these stupid superficial things that don't matter a damn, incredible evil is done in our names and under our noses.

What she say here makes more sense than I have heard in a long time! I truley beleive that this is why most of men don't just grab a skirt and wear it because we are to big of sissy's to go out dressed how we want! Mainly becuase we feel like we have to comform to the rules setforth by society!

[Skirt Chaser]

Very interesting history, I had no idea how recent some of those firsts were. Even today for professional wear it is still an issue for women who are aware dress pants still send a message a skirt or dress does not. Particularly in American politics, women recognize a segment of the population will question their sexuality and more based on clothing choices so even permission to wear clothing of choice at work isn't the end of the road. So, the lesson for guys to take from that is don't wait for men in skirts to be wholly accepted. That's not going to happen.

There are some different factors involved in the two struggles. Women adopting male styles was considered wrong but not generating the same level of revulsion of a man in clothes thought of as reserved for women. In a society where women are considered equal that might not be the case. On the other hand women moving to trousers was usually a less dressy look. Men in skirts, particularly with thought out outfits look well put together once people step back from their prejudices. Looking nice certainly works in your favor, guys. Just as some people can see past a man's ponytail if he is in a suit, looking sharp rather than shabby can only help your cause.

I don't know enough history to say if convincing husbands or their peers was more difficult for women in pants. The early adopters were likely tomboys so weren't attempting to win public approval. (This is comparable to the current free spirited men who just say "I gotta be me" and are already out skirted.) Later on when fashion *and* trousers was the goal I'm sure women got their share of catty comments from the 'respectable' women in town about how the woman in trousers was making them all look bad. Women had to be able to tell their husbands that his preference for her in a dress at all times was did not trump her desire to dress herself. All said nicely of course (one hopes) but the same conversations should be happening today for men who do or plan to wear skirts.

[tooslowprius]

Well, If you listen to most women when they wear a suit weather it's with a skirt or pants they consider it to be a power statement! They feel that they need to wear a suit to make them feel powerful, next to the males that they work with. Like the one women said at the end of the one statement by women wearing pants that gave them the ability to wear what they want. I mean lets be real here, if this was the 40 & 50 do you think you would see a women wearing anything like they wear now? It would never even have been thought of! Now here we are in a whole diffrent time and now look at how women dress and look at how they act! For women now it's I feel about them making a statement saying I am equal to the male, but I have the ability to be me and depend on my man if I want, and if I want I don't need a man to be me. I mean let's face it there are alot of women out there that will tell you that they are not gay, but that they don't need a man if they don't want one. I mean it's really sad that women have the right to decied weather they have baby's, but the man has no say so! I think what it is going to take for men to be able to wear skirts when they want is for a fashion forward designer to make a decent skirt outfit for men that a man would actually by. Just like they did for women and pants suits, then and maybe then it may be accepted. I will say that I have noticed in my times out and about most people wont say a word to you then you have them ones that will berak there neck trying to look at you! Im still doing reasurch and trying to get a better idea of why women feel that they need to wear pants!

[tooslowprius]

Well, If you listen to most women when they wear a suit weather it's with a skirt or pants they consider it to be a power statement! They feel that they need to wear a suit to make them feel powerful, next to the males that they work with. Like the one women said at the end of the one statement by women wearing pants that gave them the ability to wear what they want. I mean lets be real here, if this was the 40 & 50 do you think you would see a women wearing anything like they wear now? It would never even have been thought of! Now here we are in a whole diffrent time and now look at how women dress and look at how they act! For women now it's I feel about them making a statement saying I am equal to the male, but I have the ability to be me and depend on my man if I want, and if I want I don't need a man to be me. I mean let's face it there are alot of women out there that will tell you that they are not gay, but that they don't need a man if they don't want one. I mean it's really sad that women have the right to decied weather they have baby's, but the man has no say so! I think what it is going to take for men to be able to wear skirts when they want is for a fashion forward designer to make a decent skirt outfit for men that a man would actually by. Just like they did for women and pants suits, then and maybe then it may be accepted. I will say that I have noticed in my times out and about most people wont say a word to you then you have them ones that will berak there neck trying to look at you! Im still doing reasurch and trying to get a better idea of why women feel that they need to wear pants!

[Skirt Chaser]

Im still doing reasurch and trying to get a better idea of why women feel that they need to wear pants!

Ooh, ooh, I know! If I worked in an office my clothes would be exclusively pants and here is why I would do that.

• I want to

• Strong preference for wearing Trousers

• Comfort

• Like the Look

• There for my brains, not to be attractive to standards of others

Despite my joy over trousers I can see how there also women who would rather wear dresses and skirts, or just vary their wardrobe and feel unable to for a variety of reasons. For some it is the corporate culture where being male is considered 'normal' so women are still fighting to be considered equal and a visual reminder that she is different from men is undesirable. Also, I have noticed myself that you can get treated differently depending on how you are dressed. I've read of women complaining that they are not taken as seriously when in a dress or talked down to in ways they are not when in trousers. Also, just as you guys probably wouldn't wear a skirt when giving a presentation because you want people to be listening to you instead of thinking about how you look the same is true of women.

[tooslowprius]

Im still doing reasurch and trying to get a better idea of why women feel that they need to wear pants!

Also, just as you guys probably wouldn't wear a skirt when giving a presentation because you want people to be listening to you instead of thinking about how you look the same is true of women.

Well, I can honestly say with out a doubt that I have heard a few women and had a few women tell me that they feel just as powerful wearing a skirt as they do pants! I don't really know why they would feel that way but they do. I would like to see what would happen if one of the guys on this fourm that works in a office setting chose to wear a skirt in for a meeting or a presetaion instead of pants! Here are a few quotes I found on a web site that talks about how women should dress for a job interview!

My students can't believe it. They are stunned that such a sexist double-standard could still exist in the business world. They are incredulous that they should be expected to wear attire that is so clearly gender-specific

Well, to me that would be all the more reason for women to want men espcially in the Bizz world to want to adopt a skirt suit as part of there normal bizz clothing. Even though I know most men wouldn't think of it, mainly becuase they are so afraid of what there buddy's might think. I mean lets face it what do you think would happen if I or any other man chose to wear a skirt suit to an interview? Would we get the job? If we didn't would we be able to scream descrimiation on the basis of how we choose to dress for the interview? If we where fully qulified or more than qualified for the job? No! why do I say that? Becuase that employer or potential employer would never call you and say sorry you didn't get the job becuase you chose to wear a skirt suit Steve! So that would make it almost next to impossible for me to prove that I didn't get the job becasue I wore a skirt insted of pants!

Pros:

* If the pantsuit is widely acceptable attire in the workplace, it should be acceptable for job interviews.
* The idea that a pantsuit is unprofessional is outdated. It emanates from a male power structure that seeks to keep women in their place.
* Many employers (some surveys indicate the vast majority, in fact) say it doesn't matter as long as the pantsuit looks professional.
* Many recruiters themselves wear pantsuits.
* If you are not comfortable or confident wearing a skirted suit, you might not interview well. You should be true to yourself, and your clothing should reflect your self-image and help you project your most confident self. Some women feel they look better in pantsuits than in skirted suits.
* Pantsuits may be more acceptable in colder climates.
* Some professionals view pantsuits as actually more professional than skirtsuits because they make women seem powerful and more equal with men.

Cons:

* It's better to be overdressed than under. Whereas you might go wrong wearing a pantsuit, it’s almost impossible to go wrong wearing a skirted suit.
* It's not the pants that determine professionalism as much as it is whether the candidate wears a jacket (true of both men and women).
* Many experts say a pantsuit is OK for a second or third interview, but the skirted suit is still the best bet for the first interview. When Andersen Consulting recruits on college campuses, for example, the firm recommends skirted suits for the first two rounds of interviews, with pantsuits acceptable for the third round.
* Employers want to hire candidates who are a good "fit" with the organization; if you interview in a pantsuit in a company where all the female employees are wearing skirtsuits, you won't be perceived as fitting in.

Ok so in some of these pro's and con's the writer say's it's not the pants that determine anything! So if a man went into a interview for a job wearing a skirt would it be the same? Absolutly not! My issuse with some of this is yes you want to fit in, but why should I have to change my personality to do so, male or female! Here is the best paragrah of all!

A more difficult question is -- if most people agree that the skirted suit expectation is outdated and sexist -- what can we do to change this tradition? That’s a question that both women and men should be asking themselves. This is the 21st century after all.

My answer to that would be wear what you like to a job interview, wear what you are comfortable wearing. Women if you are more comfortable and confident wearing a pants suit then do so! Make the employer higher you for YOU! and what you bring to the table! not how they feel that you should dress! The same goes for men! If you as a man feel confident enough in your ability to wear a skirt suit to a interview do so! But sadly enough us men wouldn't do that! Why most men wouldn't do that is more that what I or anyone else will proably understand! I think it boils down to most men are ok to set back and ***** about how screwed up something like this is, and they will say it needs to be changed! When it come's time to actually grow a set and do something about it they never will!

[crfriend]

[... Y]ou guys probably wouldn't wear a skirt when giving a presentation because you want people to be listening to you instead of thinking about how you look the same is true of women.

The issue here is how one wants the message to be received. If one wants the message to be received "loud and clear", then one has a sort of responsibility not to do anything to detract from the message. Women have a bit of an advantage in this regard -- when it comes to clothing -- over men in that either style (skirt or trousers) can work equally well and not distract the audience from the message; the point here is for the presenter to look neutral, and drive the point home without distraction.

Now, if a woman presenter showed up to present an argument on, say, "a better method to make concrete in the field" attired in a slinky evening gown that'd detract from the presentation; if she was dressed in jeans, her presentation would likely work better for lack of a distraction. A presentation in a formal business setting would call for other costume, and such costume could well include skirted looks. It comes down to context.

The same thing holds true for guys. If I was to present a technical session, I'd wear trousers because I would not want my appearance to "get in the way" (any more than it already does); if, however, I was to present something having to do with men in skirts, I'd likely wear a skirted rig to help drive the point I was trying to make home. It would, however, be a rather subdued outfit because if I wore something garish or otherwise jarring it would have the opposite effect I was trying to get across.

The point here is that it's all about the presentation, not the presenter.

[crfriend]

My [ideal] would be wear what you like to a job interview, wear what you are comfortable wearing.

I've come close to getting pilloried for my opinions on this before, primarily from the "We demand it all, and we demand it now!" crowd, but I do not believe that trying to change the all-too-frequently hidebound worlds of business and employment is a good opening gambit. There's just too much inertia involved. Far better, in my opinion, would be to work the notion of decent-looking, believeable, skirted garments for men into the casual and semi-formal worlds first, and only once they're accepted there try to get the notion into the workplace. It's a question of picking one's battles wisely.

So, yes, that means the next time I go on a job interview I'll be wearing trousers. Things will be less distracting that way, and the prospective employer (who holds all the cards, by the way) will not take a look at me and judge me as a nut-job or a troublemaker based on appearance alone. I'll not mourn wearing trousers, either; there's time enough for skirts when I'm off the clock.

As a data-point, I have worn skirts to work on a few occasions (three). Once was on Halloween, and I had a pair of trousers "on standby" in my bag; the other two times were on weekends -- which is ostensibly "my" time -- and didn't bother with a "standby". The time at Halloween got me more than a few positive comments from women co-workers (and some ribbing from male ones -- to be expected), and I honestly don't know how many people at the weekends actually realised I was wearing a skirt.

[Stevie D]

.... I mean lets face it what do you think would happen if I or any other man chose to wear a skirt suit to an interview? Would we get the job?

A few years ago I went for an interview for a job with a government agency. I wore an ankle-length black linen skirt teamed with a black polo-neck top and a smart linen jacket. Part of the interview involved giving a Powerpoint presentation to the interview panel. I was offered the job. But I turned it down as it had become clear during the interview process that the job wasn't what I wanted. It was not a problem for me as I was already in a good job, and so I could afford to refuse the offer. But wearing a skirt clearly did not prevent me from being offered the job. In fact, nothing was mentioned about my attire by anyone during the whole process, which was exactly how it should have been.

[Sarongman]

If, and it seems unlikely in this uncertain economic climate, anyone was in business and wanted a male skirt suit. They could consider a trip to Fiji where such an animal is alive and well. A tailor there could have one for you in about a day and at a bargain price.

[tooslowprius]

A few years ago I went for an interview for a job with a government agency. I wore an ankle-length black linen skirt teamed with a black polo-neck top and a smart linen jacket. Part of the interview involved giving a Powerpoint presentation to the interview panel. I was offered the job. But I turned it down as it had become clear during the interview process that the job wasn't what I wanted. It was not a problem for me as I was already in a good job, and so I could afford to refuse the offer. But wearing a skirt clearly did not prevent me from being offered the job. In fact, nothing was mentioned about my attire by anyone during the whole process, which was exactly how it should have been.

I just kind of wonder if that was here in the US would it have been the same? I mean in my travels in the Air Force I have been to the UK and have noticed the people over there are not as up tight as they are over here! Why that is I have no idea. I have had my family say that it is a sin if a man wears a skirt, but if you sit back and read that it not only refers to men but to women too! Here is a small paragarh about women wearing dress's or pants.

Some women dismiss the quandary without ever really considering it while others remain in a sea of confusion never really knowing whether or not they are displeasing the Lord by wearing pants. I, too, over the years have had my own questions and struggles with this topic along with the sub-topics that seem to go along with it such as wearing jewelry or make-up, a woman cutting her hair or wearing a headcovering. I’ve read the popular books that women recommended and the testimonies of women who were putting these acts into practice. I studied out the scriptures that were quoted, to the best of my ability. Still, I never was quite able to come to a solid biblical conclusion where I could unequivocally say, ‘God commands that I wear a long dress and not pants.’

If you look into the scripture that people in the church use to say that women that wear pants are wrong and men that wear skirts is wrong. It's all on how you read it! I looked it up in my own bible. My bible is the New King James Version witch i think is witch most people have since it is the most comon in the US. Here is what it says:

Deuteronomy 22:5 A women shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a women's garment, for all who do so are an abomination (detestable) to the Lord your God

Now what a lot of people fail to say is that this quote is in the old testamet of the bible under the heading miscellaneous laws. If you read through this chapter there is a lot of thing's in here that we do not abide by anymore! So when someone throws this out there at me I just turn around and bring up that half of the laws that are in there we don't abide by anymore even those that are diehard christens! So if we take a look at this verse in the bible and take what it says and bring it into what is going on in todays world here is what I come up with. In my opion by women wearing pants it is a violation of this law and by men wearing skirts its a violation of this law. Now where a women side steps this law or tap dance's around it they say " Well the pants that I wear are made for me, a women!" Well ya you are right! Where us men have problems is the skirts that most of us wear are women's skirts! So if yo really want to be technical about it are we men in violation of the law yes and no, becuase they do make skirts for men. Women are also in violation of this too. So when someone try's to throw this out there and in are face how do we handle this? It is yet too be seen!

[SkirtDude]

Deleted.