Skirt suits

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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mugman
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Skirt suits

Post by mugman »

In a recent posting at another thread, someone suggested their thoughts on men's skirt suits being a means of lowering the barriers on men's clothing being essentially male in image (I think that was the line of thought - aplogies if I misconstrued).
I feel it would be wrong to entirely remove the difference between what have become stable male and female costume detail traits.
When a garment on a man starts to take on the look that was originally designed to alure the red-blooded male, I get a knee-jerk reaction. It might be a floaty flounced hem, lacy addition, or an over-loud material pattern much favoured by older women. This absolutely jarrs with me. I can understand that the movement is towards not making judgement between what is normally worn by a man, and that by a woman, but for the sake of 'vive la difference' stability, and a much greater chance of men in general actually coming around to wearing skirts in a future era of more accepting attitudes, surely going down the anything goes route as a basic forward looking direction is wrong, and would probably put more blokes off than convert them.
I haven't yet found the courage to wear a skirt in public, and don't hesitate to admit this. I consider myself to be a reasonably run of the mill 60+ male (though unfortunately still being unmarried, and time's running out, some might be forgiven for wondering). Therefore I am drawn always towards garments which are obviously masculine without question. This is why I cannot yet go a step further from the kilt, which, to me, is the tried and tested benchmark of male skirtwear.
The problem I see with skirt suits, which many business women wear, is that without some kind of defining difference, there will be a greater accusation directed at men who wear them too, of cross dressing, and no way is your ordinary man in the street going to place himself in that particular line of fire...however attracted he might be to switching to skirted for a change from trousers.
So far, apart from occasional stabs at male skirts from the fashion designers, there has been (I could be wrong) no basic ingredients to denote a male garment as being masculine in image. As an example, mens' trousers invariably have a zip fly, but womens' don't. Pretty obvious stuff, but it spells out the fact that the guy isn't probably wearing a woman's item. Gent's jackets usually have a straight drop each side, whereas a woman's is often pinched in to accentuate the waistline.
If I had a choice of how a male skirted suit would be, it would be along the lines of a one pleat front (which echoes the former trouser format), rather than a flat front - women don't have noticeable bits like men to worry about, so this is purely for aesthetics, with a kilt-like box pleated rear. The pleats fall from a point below that required to have one or two back pockets above. With pleat at front, and those at the back it would be comfortable to sit in, with the front pleat falling neatly between the legs rather than a flat scoop you have to remember to tuck down. Also more comfortable for driving. There would be pockets at each side, as men don't always go for handbags. That for me would be the ideal skirt, in one or two lengths, to go with a jacket in matched material. It also would have a fly front, in the same way as it's easier to get trousers on with the fly unzipped and avoids an elasticated waistband. I think this would also work well with a waistcoat (if required). The pleated back would bridge unsensationally, for me, across the kilt/skirt divide. I think I would feel quite confident in that. And with neat pleats at the back swishing about in the usual kilt-sexy way, should continue to be a hit with the ladies.
Here's a very rough artist's mock up of it, which is intentionally a plain, no nonsense (I think), over the knee design, probably worn with knee length socks...

Image

Just my thoughts and, as always, don't mind if I get shot down. Thoughts are what make the world go round.
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Peter v »

Good thinking, Mugman, it is a shame that you don't experience the options that skirts other than kilts give.

"I haven't yet found the courage to wear a skirt in public, and don't hesitate to admit this."

Your ideas about what could be a skirt type that would be much asked for is I think very good. Of course, when skirts are made specially as male clothing, not talking about style, the FIT will be suited to the general male body. Just as the male parts issue, the front zipper being long enough, to stand and have a pe.
( And debateable, which actually should not be, as sitting is a much cleaner option.... when toilet pots are available. ( even though I stand all the time :roll: ) but as we don't touch the toilet it is most hygenic for us. )

If there is an unending choice in garments that does not mean that you have to use that choice. But you can choose what ever you want in that range.

Even if you wear only kilts, you can then choose for whatever reason to wear any other type of skirt. Note we are talking about what the public is aware of in skirt wearing men. NOT what men can actually wear. Big difference.

As known, I am an advocate of a broad selection of skirts for men, as known by the greater public. In that broad selection, men can freely choose whatever without "falling out of understanding " by the public vieuw. To limit the men's skirted outfit to any specific type would only be useful for those men who want that particular style, leaving all others high and dry. :roll:

Like saying You can have any car you like, as long as it is a T Ford, in black. :roll: No porche, no jap commuter, no Humvee, etc.

I do agree that probably. within the broad choice that we should go for with regards to public awareness, that certain types of well thought out skirts would be favorite. Those types would then become most bought and worn, not because of anybody giving no other choice, but of personal choice.

As to manliness when wearing skirts, that is another story. Not all men are on the prowell for felines all the time. Men can also just be themselves, a human, going about his business, something those sex crazed women raping macho's :twisted: will never understand. I said raping, because there are preditors out there who only have one thing in mind, regardless of what the other thinks or wants. :twisted:

The men who are not on the prowel, don't want to be seen as a suitable mate..... :? don't need to be the ideal macho man, manliness, that they think that women are also "hunting ' for to gel laid. Those men are not less men than any other man, but behave restectfully. They therefore don't need to have clothing that ( a personal idea of manliness) presents them as men to copulate with.

They can be themselves, show colour, being freed from the restraints that acting the virile male presents. Your state of mind is of great influence of what you wear. Men scared to be anything else in the eyes of their ..... "mates" than macho can never express their true selves if they are themselves not actually that macho man.

I think that any man can wear kilts, they look very nice, and are very complimenting. Not all men find the look of kilts to be quite them. that is where choice comes in.

Back to skirted suits. Women wearing skirted suits are not trying to travestite to be men, and vice versa. It is up to us to prove that. By not going our own way, is proving the accusations of the uninformed, the dumb, to be correct.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Pythos »

I think the male skirt suit, If it ever comes about should be basically a male suit, with a nice skirt in place of the pants. Much like how a woman's pants suit is mostly a feminine suit excepting the slacks, which due to the fact the wearer is a woman shows curves.

As far as the type of skirt, my thought is, sky should be the limit. A plain skirt, with a back zip should suffice. I don't quite get the whole idea that the gender of a skirt is deterimined by where the zipper is located. There is no practical reason for a "man's" skirt to have a "fly" at the front, due to the fact a skirt is open bottomed, so the zipper should only be used for putting on and taking off the skirt.

Now I do think that overly colorful skirts would not work, but then again they don't work with what is the skirt suit of the business world.

Personally I really don't like the blocky look of the male suit. I don't like looking like a square as defined by the cut of my clothing. A little fitting looks nice on me, and I would think most men would experience this.

As far as the bits to worry about, isn't that what a sporran, or a large belt can be used to obscure.
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Uncle Al
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Uncle Al »

Mugman,

This is a link to a Tweed Kilt & Jacket, a.k.a. a Kilt Suit.

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/harris_tweed.html

I hope this will help in your 'creative' mode for a male skirt suit. :D

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Re: Skirt suits

Post by RichardA »

WoW now that looks great
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mugman
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by mugman »

That does look good Uncle Al. It looks right, and the side pleats work well. It reminds me of the design concepts of (of all things) Bang & Olufsen audio of the 80's - that of understated simplicity and elegance. Also, just above the knee gives a more positive business-like look than a too long weighty look. Would work in any public/social situation I reckon. Interesting that they still call it a kilt. Is it a kilt, or a skirt?
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Since1982 »

There's a movie I can't remember the name of that is about one of the English Queens' helpers, a Mr. Brown, who always wore a kilt suit to take care of his queen, whether hunting or walking or riding or anything and so did all the other men that were in her entourage. I'm sure you Brits would know the story of Mr. Brown a lot better than any movie maker did. :scotland:
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Peter v »

The kilted suit shown in the link page, is very nice, although I would think that the shown chequred material would not be to everybody's taste, more like the seventy's.

Pythos;
"As far as the bits to worry about, isn't that what a sporran, or a large belt can be used to obscure."

With a kilt no problem, with any other skirt, dress, that is not an option. And any way, as I think that real kilts are quite heavy skirts, there should be no obvious show of your parts. :) So no real "need" for a sporan.

I don't hear any men complaining about that fact at all, even though we should be careful not to be too "pronounced" :oops: :oops: :wink: . When men wear pants, I am sure that their manlyhood shows, so why should we now that WE are making the rules, go and hide ourselves, being "ashamed" of what we have? Only with some flat fronted skirts, the option may be not to buy it, if there is too much obvious "show". :roll:

Even the discussion over trouser pockets in skirts, is dubious, as I think that when trousers became tight fitting, and were not the old fashioned wide and comfortable versions from the beginning of last century, it became very unpractical to put in and take out anything from them, and if anything was in them of any size, it was / is very uncomfortable. That is of course debatable as is everything. So then with skirts, when they are not wide, they too may have no suitable place for pockets. Just as Pythos said, no real need for the fly. ( of course not all skirts can be lifted easily so that men can "go" and water the plants standing up. And as men ( me too) generally enjoy standing while watering, in that case, a front zipper of suitable length may be handy. It is of course no indication as to being a men's skirt or not, men's skirts, ie skirts made to the men's body shape, can be without the front zipper, and have a side or back zipper for a clean look, just for putting it on and off.

I really don't know why some fashion people make the wierdest men's skirt creations when they could really tap the market if they were to spend any amount of time on a normal outfit. There are thousands of examples to use for ideas. Skirts are nothing new, they are only not made specifically with the man in mind, except for the kilt and a hand full of specialists.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Kilted_John »

mugman wrote:That does look good Uncle Al. It looks right, and the side pleats work well. It reminds me of the design concepts of (of all things) Bang & Olufsen audio of the 80's - that of understated simplicity and elegance. Also, just above the knee gives a more positive business-like look than a too long weighty look. Would work in any public/social situation I reckon. Interesting that they still call it a kilt. Is it a kilt, or a skirt?
It is a kilt, made by one of the X Marks the Scot members (M.A.C Newsome aka Matthew Newsome, who runs the Scottish Tartans Museum in North Carolina). IIRC, it's box-pleated in the back, but can be had knife-pleated as well.

-J
Skirted since 2/2002, kilted 8/2002-8/2011, and dressed since 9/2013...
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Uncle Al »

mugman wrote:That does look good Uncle Al. It looks right, and the side pleats work well.
<snip>
Also, just above the knee gives a more positive business-like look than a too long weighty
look. Would work in any public/social situation I reckon. Interesting that they still call it a kilt.
Is it a kilt, or a skirt?
Mugman,

Yes, it is a Box-Pleated Kilt. Quite a nice looking outfit!
Pricy is the word! I would love to have this outfit, but
this is not in my budget. :( :blue:

Peter v,

The material is a Tweed. It does have the 'checkered' effect,
but that is part of the weave of the material.

This Kilt Suit is a copy of ones worn by Estate Owners.
Even Prince Charles has one :D

Uncle Al
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When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Peter v »

Hallo Uncle Al, thanks, sometimes I just can't find the words, even if I feel them on the tip of my tongue. :wink:
That is the disadvantage of living in a non english speaking country.
Tweed is nice. But of course, that says it all :roll: :? :roll: "estate owners and Prince Charles," No offence, but they live in their own private world, not the real world, by which I don't say who is right...... :roll: :wink: That is not your every day the man in the street outfit, however nice it is in it's own right. If you live in that sfeer, live that life, then I suppose that would be the "In" thing.
I love the tweed material myself,.

Quote: "
"The material is a Tweed. It does have the 'checkered' effect,
but that is part of the weave of the material.

This Kilt Suit is a copy of ones worn by Estate Owners.
Even Prince Charles has one :D End quote:
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Uncle Al »

Matt Newsome sells them just about any way you want.
However---Each Kilt Suit is Custom Made :!:
That's why it is a 'pricy' item. You're looking at approximately
$800-900.00 for the outfit. :( Now, I'm saving my 'pennies' for
my Theatre Organ rebuild project. :D

I still watch the 'clearance' racks at the various shops around here. :lol:


Uncle Al
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Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2025
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by mugman »

Sorry - my mind was on other things, plus maybe just a hint of senility now creeping in. I wasn't sure if it was a kilt or skirt - of course it's a kilt. But it could be a skirt if the side pleat is repeated the other side. Keep the back pleated too. I don't mind the tweed, but maybe on someone else. Out of my bracket anyway.
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Uncle Al
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Uncle Al »

Mugman,

The Box Pleat is the same all the way around, except for the
front panels. They form the 'Traditional' kilt. It is less expensive
to use Box Pleats than Knife pleats, as on a 'breacon' or 'little kilt'.

I've compared prices from Mat and his 'breacon' is about $100-150.00 more
than a Box Pleated kilt. That's how much more material is required
to form the knife pleats. Now, your idea of having a box pleat in the
front of the skirt would accomplish the same as the 'split'/overlapping
panels of a 'breacon'. If the 'front pleat' is deep and the rest are 'normal'
then the box pleat skirt concept would work and still provide 'modesty' :oops:
for the wearer.

Instead of a twill type of material, have you considered a pin-stripe?
IMO, twill is more of an industrial/work type of material. Same for
khaki, even though it is also considered 'casual wear'. How about linen?
It is great for very warm climates. I would suggest that what ever
type of material you choose, please make it 'wash-n-wear'. Some
easy care fabric. This would also make the outfit more appealing due
it is easy to take care of--no dry-cleaning bills :)

Just my 2 cents worth :lol:

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2025
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Skirt suits

Post by Ray »

Since1982 wrote:There's a movie I can't remember the name of that is about one of the English Queens' helpers, a Mr. Brown, who always wore a kilt suit to take care of his queen, whether hunting or walking or riding or anything and so did all the other men that were in her entourage. I'm sure you Brits would know the story of Mr. Brown a lot better than any movie maker did. :scotland:
Very good, skip, apart from the fact that Mr Brown assisted a British queen :wink:

The last English queen died some 400+ years ago!
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