Concern About Being Outed At Work

[jamie001]

I am under the impression that there are a lot of folks that wear skirts and other femme items that are very concerned about being outed at work. For example, these folks either confine their skirt wearing to their own homes never to venture out, or drive to another nearby town to ensure that they won't encounter anyone from their place of work. In this case these folks are allowing their employer to control them when they are not on the job and therefore are allowing their employer to control their personal life!! I could never do this, but unfortunately there are a lot of skirt wearing men that subscribe to this philosophy.

If we are ever to make real progress for men's fashion freedom, then we have to get out there and wear skirts and any other femme items that we like and we must do it going about our normal business in front of our friends and neighbors. That is the only way!! We cannot cower in the closet waiting for the world to change and for other skirt wearing men to fight the battles for us. Please be proactive and be a part of the solution and not part of the problem!

I apologize if I have offended anyone by this post, however I strongly believe that we must stand up and show that world that we are proud of our femme attire and that we wear it as feminized men without trying to deceive anyone that we are women. We should be proud to display that we are men with a strong femme side.

Jamie

Fashion Freedom for Men!!

[Departed Member]

It is my devout belief that it is the 'femme' approach which is the most damaging aspect to those of us who just wish to substitute a skirt for tr*users. If the 'femmist' brigade were only prepared to take one step at a time, instead of demanding to launch into "instant femme", then we would all have progressed a darn sight quicker. There are still too many employers who believe that women workers spend too much 'work time' fiddling with their make-up, chatting about clothes, etc. Maybe they are right? In the UK, management is loathe to challenge a woman. Why? Because women naturally 'gang up' together. Do you really think that other blokes would choose to back another bloke (regardless of the reason for any dispute) who comes to work 'en femme' - seriously?

[Ray]

Jamie,

Noble sentiments, and I agree with the general thrust of your posting. However, you might want to be a little more sensitive in your use of language, especially allusions to "femme" and "feminized".

Have a look at Dragonslain's recent photo. He's wearing a skirt and hosiery. Would anyone call him "femme" or "feminized"? I highly doubt it! Moreover, many individuals will not want to be associated with "femme" etc. There's no need to analyse the reasons too much - instead, a tolerant acceptance may be better.

I think that we should be proud of our attire - whether that be femme or not - but be aware that we can also have differing (yet equally valid) attitudes to what we wear.

For example, I am looking to masculinise garments like skirts, hosiery etc. Others may want to take a different path, embracing the feminine in their choice. That's their choice, and I support that, but I have a different agenda, and will also expect respect for my views also.

It's a broad church here, and some sensitivity not in what we believe in, but in the way we communicate this, is very helpful.

[Bob]

Different people here wear skirts for different reasons. Some want to look a little femme, others do not. Either way, the desire to wear skirts is legitimate, and should not be undermined by others, either within our outside this forum.

[Peter v]

Jamie, I do agree, with a few adjustments, although there may be a strong femme tendency under many skirted, not all men are wanting anything femme, in that retrospect, it would be wiser to word your statements otherwise, more neutral.
And I would even argue that the word Femme is slowly undergoing a meaning transformation. I would think that men even in the manly dress can dress manly and femme, femme meaning a finer, more delicate way of dressing. Having nothing to do with having a woman's body, wanting to have children etc.

Secondly, everybody should be free when the whistle blows, but men who really want to stand up for what they believe in, for their own freedom, should I would think wear what they please, skirts / dresses whatever, outside of working hours. By doing that, they not only take the freedom they rightly have, but pave the way for other up and comming skirt weares to follow. Big brother is watching us enough as it is. The influence of employers and collegues should end when the whistle blows. ( or the digital clock shows end working time.... ) It is not only the bosses, but the collegues which may seem to feel threatening. That is certainly the case when the skirt wearers themselves are not fully sure of their choice.
Some men are rightly careful when it comes to fitting in in their work group, because apparently they feel they are in a threatened posisition. That is bad even without skirts.

I think the message is to stand for what you believe in. Stand for your choice in government party, in your beliefs, in your choice to wear skirts in the way you feel pleases you. There may be consequences, as with all choices in life we make. You may feel intimidated out of work hours, and act accordingly, then the consequence is certain, I would think that in most cases there is only a feeling of consequence, coming from your own insecure feeling. Being who you are is what we live for, fight for. Go to bloody war for. It may take men with balls to stand up for what they believe in, but it is worth every second. If you agree or not, Nelson Mandela is a good example of that. But all actions should be within reason, OURS not "theirs". Jeopardising your only source of income, if it would come to that, for your right to dress differently may be extreme for some, and on first sight not wise, but being dominated, a slave your whole life isn't exactly what we want either.

[Milfmog]

Jamie,

I read your post this morning but did not have time to post a considered response. I'll try to do that now.

I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but can't help wondering whether you should have worded your post a little more delicately; your use of the word femme is somewhat blunt and I suspect that some will miss your message in the delivery. I also believe that it is wrong to be critical of people whose circumstances you can not possibly know.

Having said that, I agree that the best form of advocacy is to be seen wearing what you want to with no fuss. People are generally far smarter than we give them credit for and will soon recognise folks they wish to be associated with and those they wish to avoid. Your clothing choices may colour a strangers initial perception of you but your behaviour will generally win through. Folks who know you before meeting you skirted will usually just take the mickey for a while then forget all about how you are dressed. On the above basis, I make no secret of my skirt wearing but chose not to wear skirts at work at present. My boss has indicated that he will tolerate it provided it causes no disruption and I have worn skirts when travelling with colleagues and when arriving for or leaving work. However during the working day it is generally preferable not to put any barriers, however small, between myself and my colleagues so a softly, softly approach seems sensible. They are steadily getting used to my little idiosyncrasy and once I feel that is well established I may stay skirted all day when it suits me and I have no customers to meet.

Some of the folks here have partners who do not like the idea of them being skirted. My wife is pretty relaxed about it, but, if she were not, I'd stop. Although some would say she was controlling me I'd rather be controlled (voluntarily) by her than live without her; she's far more important to me than clothing.

Likewise, if my ability to earn a living depended on my not wearing skirts to or at work than I'd comply, the need to provide for my family easily trumps my preference for skirts. I'd still argue for the permission to dress as I please, when appropriate, but I need to earn a living more than I need to wear a skirt. Other folks will undoubtedly feel differently.

Clearly everyone's circumstances are different and we all make our own judgements. Saying that you think folks should skirt to work is fine, but berating them for not doing so without fully understanding their reasons is inappropriate.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Ray]

Just looking at a couple of postings, I'm not convinced Jamie is telling us to wear skirts at work. The phrase "concerned about being outed at work" appears to be a concern relating to a work colleague seeing you skirted in the area local to your employer - in other words the place where you live and work.

Which reminds me. I'm typing away here in jeans. Damn. Must go and get a skirt...

[Since1982]

I am under the impression that there are a lot of folks that wear skirts and other femme items

There are. However, they didn't used to be members of this site. There are dozens of femme males sites on the web, also lots and lots of tranny and CD sites. Notice the big box at the entrance page, SKIRTCAFE "Men in Kilts and Skirts"...it doesn't say "men in pantyhose, makeup, nail polish, high heel shoes and petticoats" does it? We've already lost 95% of our kilt wearers. Are our masculine skirt wearing men heading out the door also?

[SkirtDude]

My general attitude about co-workers is that I am not going to bring up the skirt subject on my own but if somebody finds out (for example by going to a Contra Dance and seeing me in a skirt) I am not particularly concerned about it.

[Pythos]

To those who keep saying hosiery and heels are femme.

hose were origninaly male clothing as were heels. Roman soldiers shaved their legs, or coverd them with material much like stockings for a more refined look. Please stop saying that guys that want to wear hosiery with their skirts are trying to be fem. This is the third time you have read a post with such statements and I for one think it is high time somebody pointed it out.

I wear my skirts as a male, I wear boots with heels, and I almost always wear hose. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANNA BE FEMME. It means they are articles I like. I find skirts with hairy legs, or bare legs to look incomplete, or un refined. If that is how you wanna wear them, fine, but do not put others down for adding other items to their wardrobe.

Thank you.

[Uncle Al]

Pythos,

Well said! To many people try to make others fit 'their' mold.
Most of us here like to wear skirts, some with hose, others with
out. This is their style. Some I personally like while others-"No Way
Jose". That is what makes each person unique. Peter v's style is
not for me, but I will defend his right to wear what he likes. Just
like your Wedding Outfit--Not for me, but it is you! You can pull it
off! Great! I agree that many 'things' are creeping back into the
forum, that are not proper things to be discussed here. I also agree
with Skip that some of the 'posts' may be driving patrons away.
Maybe they feel that this is turning into a Cross-Dressing site.
That we are not! We are just trying to re-claim what was once
proper attire for men. This is a site for and about Men in Skirts AND
Kilts. Not just skirts or what is worn under them-that is for another
site. I also agree that the word 'femme' has no place on this forum.

Yes, this does need to be put to rest. I too, am getting tired of
these kind of posts. They are not promoting men in skirts & kilts.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Since1982]

People who wear pantyhose wear them in air conditioned offices, and most certainly not doing hard heavy labor in a yard, in the blazing sun.

Wow, those fellows you were referring to back in the early times that wore hose all the time must have been really really hot, since Air Conditioning didn't exist in the 1600's, when hose for men was all the rage. I don't know for sure, as I wasn't there, but dueling with swords in the blazing sun in the summer in a dueling yard must have been at least as hot and sweaty as doing hard heavy labor.

[Departed Member]

To those who keep saying hosiery and heels are femme.

hose were origninaly male clothing as were heels. Roman soldiers shaved their legs, or coverd them with material much like stockings for a more refined look. Please stop saying that guys that want to wear hosiery with their skirts are trying to be fem.

Methinks you are deliberately evading the point raised here! It's the 'package' that's at odds, not specifically tights! Forget the nonsense about what Romans may, or may not, have worn - that purely a 'red herring' - isn't it? In the 'modern age', it's not exactly uncommon for men to wear tights, in cold weather, is it? Hasn't been for decades. An extra layer of clothing, when the temperature drops. Postmen, policemen, binmen, building workers, even office staff(!) have worn such items in the winter - have done so myself - no big deal! Wear 'em when it's hot (say, 45-50F, and above), and they're a potential health risk - regardless of gender - more particularly under tr*users, especially tight fitting ones.

I know exactly where Skip is coming from, (as do most folk here) and, despite our different cultures, locations and temperatures, it's not exactly difficult to visualise the 'look' he is referring to. M to F Cross-dressing isn't about one item of clothing in isolation, it's about the 'look' - and that 'look' is indisputably, 'femme'!

[Sasquatch]

People who wear pantyhose wear them in air conditioned offices, and most certainly not doing hard heavy labor in a yard, in the blazing sun.

Wow, those fellows you were referring to back in the early times that wore hose all the time must have been really really hot, since Air Conditioning didn't exist in the 1600's, when hose for men was all the rage. I don't know for sure, as I wasn't there, but dueling with swords in the blazing sun in the summer in a dueling yard must have been at least as hot and sweaty as doing hard heavy labor.

Well I know the Keys are too darn hot for tights! So is southeastern NC from Easter until Thanksgiving!! But this forum is a pretty big tent and I think we can accept a lot of opinions. When it gets too weird, Bob or Carl will let us know!

As for what you wear to work, I agree that you should wear whatever the person who signs your paycheck thinks is appropriate. After you're done for the day, then wear what you like. I appreciate boldness as much as anyone, but each must go forth within their own comfort level. I don't think anyone has the data to know whether the more femme freestylers produce negative social consequences, as far as acceptance goes, for those of us who are more traditionally masculine or conservative in our style. Of course for a lot of onlookers, it likely doesn't make any difference; skirt = gay, no matter what style. But it is also possible that the more radical freestylers are running interference for the rest of us. Perhaps, when compared to them, Skip, you and I don't look out of the ordinary! We might need to thank them some day!

sasq

[jamie001]

I wear pantyhose, high heels and nail polish with my skirt, however I am not a CD because I am not attempting to deceive anyone that I am a woman.
If you want to be a masculine man, then that is fine, but I choose to be a feminine man.

Okay, so what is your point?

I am under the impression that there are a lot of folks that wear skirts and other femme items

There are. However, they didn't used to be members of this site. There are dozens of femme males sites on the web, also lots and lots of tranny and CD sites. Notice the big box at the entrance page, SKIRTCAFE "Men in Kilts and Skirts"...it doesn't say "men in pantyhose, makeup, nail polish, high heel shoes and petticoats" does it? We've already lost 95% of our kilt wearers. Are our masculine skirt wearing men heading out the door also?