What women really think

[DrFishnets]

Absolute and total rubbish. I am a man; I happen to wear dresses and skirts; I don’t give a toss what anyone thinks about that. I do not, in any way, shape or form identity with the rainbow mob. I will take on anyone who suggests that I should.

The cafe is supposedly about men who identify as men choosing to wear skirts an dresses. If it is continually to be hijacked by those with trans or other agendas it is not the forum for me.

Hey you! If you were to learn to read properly you’d realise that I wasn’t saying that men who wear skirts and dresses belong to the rainbow mob. I am saying that men who dress in skirts and dresses are seen by society as crossdressers if they aren’t thinking that they are trans or gay. I myself don’t give a damn what society thinks of me dressing in skirts amd dresses or tights. I am a man who happens to love wearing gender fluid fashions. Please learn to read properly. Enough said.

[john62]

Well said

[Grok]

The Scottish kilt escapes this scrutiny because its cultural history codes it as masculine, showing how arbitrary these associations can be.

Thinking back a few years, to a now defunct forum, there was an article which advocated something similar. Borrow open ended garments which are traditional mens wear in other (generally non-Western) cultures. As you put it, garments which have a cultural history that codes as masculine. Not many options were listed, as I recall.

[AnonUser30]

You can't borrow the culture that surrounds those garments....everything is contextual. A nice question to ask yourself when thinking about that is what do citizens of those cultures wear when they immigrate to western Europe and the US? They largely assimilate. It's easy to point out how arbitrary cultural norms are, but it doesn't change the fact they exist and bear some significance.

[Grok]

Yeah, the best case scenario would be new designs gaining traction. However, it looks like a back lash on the horizon. Foreshadowing a period of repression.

I think that sartorial revolutions take about a century because change is on a generational scale. (Requiring somewhat more accepting generations to replace the old dinosaurs).

Perhaps the only thing that might gain traction-in the near future-is some sort of stealth skirt. Mirroring women in their culottes during the Victorian era.

[Grok]

As for other modes of self expression, which we have occasionally discussed, I have no idea how these will fare. Will it become illegal for a man to wear nail polish? Will it become illegal for a man to wear a gold necklace? Will it become illegal for a man to have long hair?

Or might we see a residue of change, with society tolerating the modest change we have so far seen, but saying no farther?

[6ft3Aussie]

I have no idea how these will fare. Will it become illegal for a man to wear a gold necklace? Will it become illegal for a man to have long hair?

Send in the police, quick smart!!! I'm in Manila, Philippines currently, sitting in my lounge room, wearing a sarong, gold chain and I have quite long hair...

Seriously nobody seems to care or pay any attention around here, although one young girl in the elevator looked at me for a few seconds but never said anything, her mum paid me zero attention..

[STEVIE]

One thing guys, any woman reading this is probably thinking that "their" skirts are safe for another hundred years or so.
Men in skirts, as a group are a joke and the last few posts prove it, some members should be really ashamed!
I wonder if any will have the cojones to admit it?
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Absolute and total rubbish. I am a man; I happen to wear dresses and skirts; I don’t give a toss what anyone thinks about that. I do not, in any way, shape or form identity with the rainbow mob. I will take on anyone who suggests that I should.

The cafe is supposedly about men who identify as men choosing to wear skirts an dresses. If it is continually to be hijacked by those with trans or other agendas it is not the forum for me.

Go be man if that's what you think a man is. My own view of manhood is that men provide leaderships and safety for our families and comunity. Here's a good mantra to live by:

"Those who feel the breath of sadness
Sit down next to me
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me"

Enough said

I'm also not seeing the joke. I'm a Civil Engineer and i have worked with some fine female engineers with expertise in finite element analysis for example.

I met a lot of agression on Mumsnet, mostly around men's feeling of superiority. If we saw understanding and cooperation between the two factions, we might see progess for MIS.

Perhaps the only thing that might gain traction-in the near future-is some sort of stealth skirt. Mirroring women in their culottes during the Victorian era.

True they did that. They also went out there and stood up for themselves. Wearing trousers in public when it was not acceptable. They talked the spouses and gained support. They stood up in court, wouldn't back down and went to prison for it.

Men must get over the sniggers, pointing and agression. It's a easier road really and needs to be fought before someone in power closes the door and makes it illegal.

[Midas]

I stand by what I said.

The rainbow mob, as referred to by me are a political group. If they want to be as they wish, I have no objection but do object to their proselytising; live and let live but don’t shove it down my throat.

There is too much political discourse on the forum. We should not be engaging with politics and political debate. All else apart, it is boring.

[DrFishnets]

I stand by what I said.

The rainbow mob, as referred to by me are a political group. If they want to be as they wish, I have no objection but do object to their proselytising; live and let live but don’t shove it down my throat.

There is too much political discourse on the forum. We should not be engaging with politics and political debate. All else apart, it is boring.

You still didn’t read properly what I wrote. In no way did I mention that all MIS were part of the rainbow mob.

[AnonUser30]

I stand by what I said.

The rainbow mob, as referred to by me are a political group. If they want to be as they wish, I have no objection but do object to their proselytising; live and let live but don’t shove it down my throat.

There is too much political discourse on the forum. We should not be engaging with politics and political debate. All else apart, it is boring.

Again. I think this is a really misguided view.

Let me give a very concrete. I live in Houston, TX which up until 1980, had a city ordinance that banned cross dressing. This was vaguely interpreted and largely used to arrest and harass members of the LGBTQ community. It was the efforts of a trans woman who finally got the ordinance repealed in 1980. Would I legally be allowed to wear a skirt as a man if that ordinance were still in place? It's a pretty grey area and I'm not sure I'd risk it. Right now, in the Texas legislator, I think there are many that would like to see those type of laws put back into place. I find politics tiring as well, but unfortunately, clothing, especially gender conforming clothing, IS political. I am directly benefitting from activism from the LGBTQ community in my day to day life.

[crfriend]

As the board administrator, I'd like to see the place stay apolitical, but the raw inescapable fact is that whether we like it or not we're engulfed in it thanks to the "leadership" we have in place on the global stage -- and barring a miracle, that is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Thus we have to live with it, and we have to live with the risks that being mistaken for something we are NOT are not going to go away; if anything, the situation is going to get more perilous, not less.

That also means learning to navigate the utter morass our culture has become, and how to deal with it as it gets more and more toxic with each passing day and every temper tantrum at the top. About half the time now I simply adopt "protective colouration" and wear the prescribed uniform as I do not need to be picked up by the Gestapo and disappeared. We may all have to do that soon depending on where we live -- with the folks in backwards cultures with oppressive regimes facing the most danger.

[STEVIE]

I stand by what I said.

Do you also stand by what you were saying in 2021Midas?
Since you appear to have missed me quoting you, here it is again.
Also, since you live in the UK as you live in England, transgender politics do not present anything like the same implications as they do in other parts of the world.
In your own words from 1981, the bolding of the font was me, to highlight to highlight the relevant part.
Seems to me that you were grateful to the "Rainbow Mob" for easing your own transition from behind closed doors to the cold light of day.
Here it is, and I really would appreciate a reply.

Re: Revisiting the effect of the trans movement on us
Post by Midas » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:12 pm
I have only just started going out in public wearing a skirt and haven’t had any reaction from anybody at all - nobody is any different. The first few times out I wore a dark coloured, relatively short skirt. Last time I wore a longer, patterned skirt with a pink fitted top. I expected to feel more self conscious but nothing was different.

I believe this is in part due to the trans effect. People are more used to seeing someone who presents as out of the ordinary and attitudes are less judgmental than might have been the case a few years ago.


You should also pay very close attention to the thread title, The Effect of the Trans Movement on us!
Steve

[TSH]

Welp. It looks like we're delving into murky waters, again. I might as well throw my hat in the ring. Here goes:

This needs to be made as transparent as possible, because I'm sick of this, quite frankly, anti-LGBTQ+ attitude that I'm seeing on this website. When you're in a forum that advocates for men wearing skirts — a traditionally "feminine" garment to the eyes of billions of people around the world, it'd naturally include people who are LGBTQ+. If most (if not, all) members understand that a man in a skirt doesn't automatically make him LGBTQ+ (which is what everyone here is already in agreement with), what's the issue here? The fact that both parties have their own motives and goals doesn't mean we can't find common ground and operate in a way that is conducive to society being more accepting of us — as in both MiS and LGBTQ+ folk.

I stand by what I said.

Yes. And everything you've said thus far is moot, because you clearly didn't properly read the thing you responded to and concocted a straw man based on that blatant misreading on something that should've been easy to understand. The worst thing is that your entire tangent about this "rainbow mob" is predicted on another user that you took completely out of context. Apparently, just mentioning the term "LGBTQ+" is enough to get you started.

The rainbow mob, as referred to by me are a political group. If they want to be as they wish, I have no objection but do object to their proselytising; live and let live but don’t shove it down my throat.

@DrFishnets made a pretty good post stating that most of us just want to be seen as men who happen to wear the clothing that we like without being seen as anything other than men, but it can only happen if more men step up to the plate. You should be agreeing with everything he's said, because he wants what you, I, and LITERALLY the entire ******* forum wants. Instead, you decided to go on a tirade about this rainbow mob and non-existent "trans agenda" BS. If you're defining the term "proselytise" as "advocating for awareness and acceptance of people of queer backgrounds", and somehow equivocate that to "shoving it down your throat", the issue isn't the "rainbow mob"; it's you. These historically oppressed and marginalized groups of people can't "live and let live" when people like you sprout this harmful rhetoric, completely oblivious that these folk still face hardship because of their existence. If bigoted, toxic individuals just left them alone, then they wouldn't need to have a movement dedicated to them in the first place. You're completely indistinguishable from the racists who campaigned against the Civil Rights Movement in the mid-20th century. They've would've said the exact same balderdash towards black people that you're saying now to the LGBTQ+ community. STOP doing that.

There is too much political discourse on the forum. We should not be engaging with politics and political debate. All else apart, it is boring.

You're the one causing this thread to be derailed because you're not seeing the bigger picture here. And EVERYTHING is politicized; that includes clothing, so it's folly to talk about how society ingrains gender into clothing without being political about it. It's an unavoidable, necessary evil.