What women really think

[AnonUser30]

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to
choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

I see where the other poster is coming from. While it’s true that clothing itself has no gender, we don’t live in a vacuum—socially, certain clothes are still strongly associated with one gender or the other. On this forum, whether we acknowledge it or not, we’re men who enjoy wearing something typically linked to women’s fashion.

Part of the LGBTQ umbrella includes people who are genderqueer or gender nonconforming—those who choose not to live neatly inside the “man” and “woman” boxes. I’ve found that kind of language useful when explaining my style to others, and it’s also helped me connect with people who, while not necessarily men in skirts, are likewise pushing against their own gender norms in ways that suit them.

[jamie001]

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

The problem here is that there's no latitude any longer for expressions that do not follow the "traditional" "Father Knows Best" mentality -- and that's a direct reflection of what's sitting at the top of the pile at the moment. The problem is that the damage is already done and it'll take generations to erase the damage.

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

The problem here is that there's no latitude any longer for expressions that do not follow the "traditional" "Father Knows Best" mentality -- and that's a direct reflection of what's sitting at the top of the pile at the moment. The problem is that the damage is already done and it'll take generations to erase the damage.

CR is correct. We are very quickly moving back to the 1950's regarding rights for marginalized groups and acceptable forms of self expression. LGBTQ individuals are being targeted and we are moving toward the stereotypical definition of men and women in the 1950's. Why does this matter to us here on skirt cafe? Here is my take:

1. We are seen by the general population as being either gender nonconforming or as gay homosexuals. Please note that I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with being a gay homosexual. If we look-up the definition of gender nonconforming, all of us here on the Cafe fit that definition whether we like it or not. We definitely do not fit the definition of the stereotypical 1950's man that some members of conservative society are attempting to resurrect.

2. Here at the cafe, we are all men, but we fall into different areas on gender spectrum. By societies definition, some the men here like myself are more feminine, and some are more masculine, and some fall into the middle ground. We are all biologically men, but fall into different areas of the gender spectrum, which is great because there is room for everyone and all expressions. The Cafe has really evolved over the years.

3. When we add accessories like earrings, nail polish, purses, and other items, by societies definition we are moving toward a feminine presentation. Many of us there don't believe that they are moving toward a feminine presentation because we are simply reclaiming fashion items that previously belonged to men before an idiot by the name of Beau Brummell came along and destroyed men's fashion. Those folks are correct! Unfortunately, society at large has never heard of Beau Brummell and simply sees us as moving toward the feminine and therefore we are perceived as gender nonconforming, feminine, and possibly gay homosexuals.

4. The LGBTQ battle is not our battle. That is the sentiment of most of the members here on the Cafe, but I beg to differ with this thought process. It is very simple! The ridicule that is showered onto the LGBTQ folks for nontraditional appearances is also trickled down onto us because the general public cannot differentiate us from LGBTQ folks. It is really that simple. The more that nontraditional appearances and nontraditional fashion for men are stigmatized, the more we are scrutinized.

5. Poking the bear. The current state of things in Washington is to poke the bear regarding LGBTQ rights. Watch a conservative network like NewsMax for one day and you will see examples of this including making fun of men with alternate presentations and men that fall short regarding traditional masculinity. They even advertise to invest you money in companies that adhere to the norms of traditional masculinity. Things were going well for years until everyone started pointing at, ridiculing, and laughing at the elephant in the room that remained hidden and was previously blending well into general society.

I 100 percent agree that we CR that we are moving fast toward a "Father Knows Best" or "Leave It to Beaver" because of what is currently sitting on the top of the pile and trickling downward.

We are not in a good situation! In my opinion, the best thing that we can collectively do is to unite, respect each other, and realize that even though we are not part of the LGBTQ community, that as the LGBTQ community gets beaten down, we will also suffer much of the same fate for our nonstandard presentation.

Jamie
Fashion Freedom for Men

Someone please invent a time machine so that I can go back in time and stop Beau Brummell!

[Midas]

The rainbow mob have nothing to do with us. They are just another interest group pushing their own agenda. We are about men wearing what they like. We are not interested in anything else, whether some think it relevant or not. Anyone wishing to debate or advocate the rainbow mob should decamp to an appropriate forum, rather than annoy the rest of us.

[Grok]

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

The problem here is that there's no latitude any longer for expressions that do not follow the "traditional" "Father Knows Best" mentality --

The problem here is that there's no latitude any longer for expressions that do not follow the "traditional" "Father Knows Best" mentality -- and that's a direct reflection of what's sitting at the top of the pile at the moment. The problem is that the damage is already done and it'll take generations to erase the damage.

CR is correct. We are very quickly moving back to the 1950's regarding rights for marginalized groups and acceptable forms of self expression. LGBTQ individuals are being targeted and we are moving toward the stereotypical definition of men and women in the 1950's.

Yes. A back lash. On a superficial level, society may have seemed to be moving towards tolerance. But simmering below the surface....

As an example, I came across a story about the Arkansas legislature. About a move to legislate the length of a man's hair-long hair to be banned. I had thought that that particular issue had been resolved by the end of the 1960s.

[crfriend]

Yes. A back lash. On a superficial level, society may have seemed to be moving towards tolerance. But simmering below the surface....

As an example, I came across a story about the Arkansas legislature. About a move to legislate the length of a man's hair-long hair to be banned. I had thought that that particular issue had been resolved by the end of the 1960s.

We are in the early phases of a new Dark Age, and unless the free-fall into the abyss can be arrested then we're done for for quite a lot longer than the current despots will walk the Earth. I'm guessing four to five hundred years.

[AnonUser30]

The rainbow mob have nothing to do with us. They are just another interest group pushing their own agenda. We are about men wearing what they like. We are not interested in anything else, whether some think it relevant or not. Anyone wishing to debate or advocate the rainbow mob should decamp to an appropriate forum, rather than annoy the rest of us.

Personally, I think this is a really misguided view. Siloing off the "men in skirts' community from the larger LGBTQ community is just shooting ourselves in the foot. Challenging traditional gender norms around a number of things, including clothing, is a major component of LGBTQ activism.

[DrFishnets]

The way I see it is that we are crossdressers in the eyes of society whether we like it or not even if we aren’t trans or gay. I know that there shouldn’t be any gender in clothing but that’s the way it is.There is nothing wrong with crossdressing and women have been doing it for decades and have been accepted by society for decades because a majority of women weren’t scared to delve into gender fluid clothing. Unfortunately, only a minority of men like us are interested in gender fluid clothing.

I, myself like most MIS on this forum just want to wear skirts, dresses and tights and still be seen as a cis man in society just like women wear, trousers, pants and jeans and still seen as cis women in society but we need more and more men being like us for it to happen.

[mr seamstress]

About a move to legislate the length of a man's hair-long hair to be banned. I had thought that that particular issue had been resolved by the end of the 1960s.

Unfortunately in early 70's US Supreme Court ruled in favor of school when it comes about child's hair. The court agree that boys having long hair was disrupted in class room and made it impossible tell the difference between the sexes. Arkansas legislators will be joining Texas in laws regarding length of child hair. If you was talking about adult hair, then it is a different story. Then that law probability want be held legal.
After the Supreme Court ruled about child's hair latter the Supreme Court ruled in favor women can wear pants. Teachers can tell the difference of sexes by length of their hair only. :

[Susie]

Recent smear test confirmed that I for one am NOT a male, even though I may be a cross-dresser since I wear trousers more then skirts.

[Uncle Al]

How most men think



How most women think


Enough said

Uncle Al

[Mouse]

Sorry for my missing humour Uncle Al, but I don't think that post is useful to the discussion. We have plenty of examples of men with messed up thinking, the collection of men landing in your northern state today are prime set of examples.

[crfriend]

I identify most strongly with the second photograph, but that's because I've worked with complex systems all my life and am very comfortable around them. The main trick in dealing with them is knowing how to parse them apart so you can look at individual components that may be suspect.

[Midas]

The way I see it is that we are crossdressers in the eyes of society whether we like it or not even if we aren’t trans or gay. I know that there shouldn’t be any gender in clothing but that’s the way it is.There is nothing wrong with crossdressing and women have been doing it for decades and have been accepted by society for decades because a majority of women weren’t scared to delve into gender fluid clothing. Unfortunately, only a minority of men like us are interested in gender fluid clothing.

I, myself like most MIS on this forum just want to wear skirts, dresses and tights and still be seen as a cis man in society just like women wear, trousers, pants and jeans and still seen as cis women in society but we need more and more men being like us for it to happen.

Absolute and total rubbish. I am a man; I happen to wear dresses and skirts; I don’t give a toss what anyone thinks about that. I do not, in any way, shape or form identity with the rainbow mob. I will take on anyone who suggests that I should.

The cafe is supposedly about men who identify as men choosing to wear skirts an dresses. If it is continually to be hijacked by those with trans or other agendas it is not the forum for me.

[STEVIE]

Absolute and total rubbish. I am a man; I happen to wear dresses and skirts; I don’t give a toss what anyone thinks about that. I do not, in any way, shape or form identity with the rainbow mob. I will take on anyone who suggests that I should.

No one says that you have to identify with anything or anyone Midas, live your life in your own little vacuum if that pleases you.
The real and total rubbish is actually to deny reality and those around you who exist outside in the real world.
Don't give a toss, well I have a message for you, neither does the society in general.
You can also take on anyone you choose, it won't make a blind bit of difference.
Steve.

PS

Re: Revisiting the effect of the trans movement on us
Post by Midas » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:12 pm

I have only just started going out in public wearing a skirt and haven’t had any reaction from anybody at all - nobody is any different. The first few times out I wore a dark coloured, relatively short skirt. Last time I wore a longer, patterned skirt with a pink fitted top. I expected to feel more self conscious but nothing was different.

I believe this is in part due to the trans effect. People are more used to seeing someone who presents as out of the ordinary and attitudes are less judgmental than might have been the case a few years ago.

[phathack]

The tendency to assign gender to people often stems from deeply ingrained social and cultural norms that rely on binary categories—male and female—to quickly organize and interpret human behavior, appearance, and roles. Historically, these categories have been tied to biological sex, societal expectations, and power structures, making gender a shorthand for how people are perceived and treated. Clothing, as a visible marker, gets caught up in this because it’s one of the most immediate ways society signals and reinforces gender norms—think dresses for women, suits for men. People lean on these cues to make snap judgments, as the human brain is wired to categorize for efficiency, even if it oversimplifies.

Treating someone as an individual human without regard to gender or clothing is entirely possible, but it requires dismantling those automatic assumptions. It’s challenging because many societies still equate gender with identity, status, or behavior, and clothing often serves as a public declaration of that. For example, a man in a skirt might be seen as defying norms, prompting others to question his gender or intent rather than just seeing him as a person expressing himself. The Scottish kilt escapes this scrutiny because its cultural history codes it as masculine, showing how arbitrary these associations can be.

To move toward treating people as individuals, it helps to consciously challenge those ingrained biases—focusing on a person’s actions, words, or character rather than their appearance or assumed gender. Some advocate for gender-neutral language or norms, but resistance comes from tradition, fear of change, or discomfort with ambiguity. Progress is happening, though—more people are embracing fluid or non-gendered expressions, and younger generations often prioritize individuality over rigid labels. Still, it’s a slow shift, as cultural habits die hard.

As a man in Western society, I wear skirts, dresses, and leggings as a bold fashion statement, embracing these garments as expressions of my personal style without identifying as a cross-dresser. My clothing choices reject rigid gender norms, prioritizing comfort, aesthetics, and individuality over societal expectations. Unlike cross-dressing, which often involves adopting another gender’s clothing for expression or performance, I integrate skirts and dresses into my masculine or gender-neutral wardrobe, redefining them as menswear.