When is a kilt not a kilt?

[Charlie]

I was at Bradford on Avon the other day, with my wife, watching the boats come up through the lock (we'd just finished a two week canal cruise - continuously unbifurcated for two blissful weeks on the Staffs & Worcs canal and thought we'd watch others do the work).
I was wearing a denim Union kilt. One guy came up to work the lock and asked if my kilt was Scottish or Welsh (credit to him for knowing there are such things as Welsh kilts). I told him it was neither, just a denim kilt. He was adamant that, as it wasn't Scottish or Welsh, it must be a skirt - which of course technically it is. I told him I didn't care either way. The guy in the ice cream van was interested though, and was quite happy when told I wasn't Scottish

Charlie

[RyeOfTheDead]

Just curious what the difference between a Scottish or Welsh kilt is? Is it just the Tartan? I was recently informed that the Irish kilts are all relatively new "tartans" mostly invented for Americans and not traditional at all, I haven't been able to find any info to confirm this. I had often heard before that the Irish did wear kilts but that they were solid colors, like green or black, and not plaid. Also only heard this second hand and haven't found any real confirmation of it.

[Uncle Al]

Rye,

The info I have is that Scottish Kilts are based on the Clan System.
Irish Kilts are based on the county you're from, not anything to do
with a specific 'family or Clan'.

Uncle Al

[RyeOfTheDead]

I have that info too, but I've read on a thread on a flickr kilt group that those county tartans aren't actually based in any traditional thing and were invented by kilt manufacturers in relatively recent years mostly as a result of demand by American Irish descendants looking for Irish kilts.

[crfriend]

I have that info too, but I've read on a thread on a flickr kilt group that those county tartans aren't actually based in any traditional thing and were invented by kilt manufacturers in relatively recent years mostly as a result of demand by American Irish descendants looking for Irish kilts.

Well, if it helps get the garment accepted in general society, how can that be a bad thing?

Sometimes it's also worth bearing in mind that the garment we know as a kilt today is, in fact, an invention of the Victorian era and has little precedent in history. The "little kilt" of today is certainly nothing like what was worn in the 16th and 17th centuries. My personal belief is that since we're working with a construct anyway, that a little more "interpretation" (viz Utilikilts) cannot hurt; it's not like we're damaging the historical fabric!

[RyeOfTheDead]

Well, if it helps get the garment accepted in general society, how can that be a bad thing?

Who said it was bad thing? All I was asking was for anyone who might know more about it to confirm or deny the information I had, and Charlie made a comment about the difference between Scottish and Welsh kilts, I wondered what it was. It was purely academic curiosity and that's it!

Considering the pictures I've posted I don't think for a second that I could be considered a kilt purist.

[Milfmog]

I was at Bradford on Avon the other day, with my wife, watching the boats come up through the lock (we'd just finished a two week canal cruise - continuously unbifurcated for two blissful weeks on the Staffs & Worcs canal and thought we'd watch others do the work).
I was wearing a denim Union kilt. One guy came up to work the lock and asked if my kilt was Scottish or Welsh (credit to him for knowing there are such things as Welsh kilts). I told him it was neither, just a denim kilt. He was adamant that, as it wasn't Scottish or Welsh, it must be a skirt - which of course technically it is. I told him I didn't care either way. The guy in the ice cream van was interested though, and was quite happy when told I wasn't Scottish

Charlie

My brother lived in Bradford-on-Avon for some years and I have been kilted there many times. I had a similar conversation a year or so ago with one of the customers at The Barge Inn (?) who insisted that my UK should be called a skirt because it did not come from Scotland. I did not rise to the bait since a kilt is a skirt and I have no qualms about saying so, but I did point out that my Union Kilt came from Wales and my so-called Scottish kilts were probably made in the far East.

I think the thing that finally got to him though was when my wife said something about my "indonesian kilt... oh, you call that a sarong don't you?" He just gave up and went back to his pint after that.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS To answer your initial question a kilt is not a kilt when the wearer decides not to call it a kilt! I don't think there is another answer that really works unless you get into the specification in detail and then the kilt police will always have one more reason why your kilt is not "real".

[Since1982]

I had a similar conversation a year or so ago with one of the customers at The Barge Inn (?)

Funny how a pair of words in one country can be so different in another country. Where Milf is, the "Barge Inn" is a watering hole. In America the two words Barge Inn might mean a pushy person just pushed past other people to get in the tavern, pub or bar. As in "Joe just barged right in, knocking other patrons out of the way like tenpins"..

[Milfmog]

Funny how a pair of words in one country can be so different in another country. Where Milf is, the "Barge Inn" is a watering hole. In America the two words Barge Inn might mean a pushy person just pushed past other people to get in the tavern, pub or bar. As in "Joe just barged right in, knocking other patrons out of the way like tenpins"..

The same double meaning exists here. Many pub names are a deliberate play on words, the Barge inn is a case in point. (My question mark is becasue I don't recall for sure whether the pub is called "The Barge Inn", "The Canal" or "The Lock Inn", so many variations of these pub names are used by canalside taverns that I get mixed up as to which one is where.)

Have fun,


Ian.

[RichardA]

Funny how a pair of words in one country can be so different in another country

It’s like Durex as in condom in the UK
But in Australia Durex is sticky tape

[Charlie]

My brother lived in Bradford-on-Avon for some years and I have been kilted there many times. I had a similar conversation a year or so ago with one of the customers at The Barge Inn (?) who insisted that my UK should be called a skirt because it did not come from Scotland. I did not rise to the bait since a kilt is a skirt and I have no qualms about saying so, but I did point out that my Union Kilt came from Wales and my so-called Scottish kilts were probably made in the far East.
...
PS To answer your initial question a kilt is not a kilt when the wearer decides not to call it a kilt! I don't think there is another answer that really works unless you get into the specification in detail and then the kilt police will always have one more reason why your kilt is not "real".

I'm confident with wearing a denim pleated skirt out and about, because I think of it as a kilt and I don't have a problem with people calling it a skirt (in fact I'm quite pleased). I hesitate at wearing an unpleated skirt out and about though Think I'm somewhat mixed up inside

You're right Ian, the pub at Bradford is the Barge Inn, but I haven't been in there for some years.

Charlie

[Since1982]

You haven't Barged inn there for a while, Charlie???