Where did G, S, E & M go?

[Uncle Al]

Where did G, S, E & M go?

G=Grammar, S=Spelling, E=Etiquette and M=Manners have seemed to disappear
in quite a few posts lately. This is appalling that the attitudes of posters are
'not to proof read' or check spelling before making a post. I've found myself getting
ready to make a post, when upon previewing it, I've made typo's left and right.
I've not held down the shift key long enough to get a capital letter, or held down a key
too long and ended with multiple letters. I have even hit between keys with both
letters appearing in the same word (the one which doesn't belong there has to be
removed). A handy tool is a Dictionary. When I don't have one available, I use MS-Word,
type the word and use spell-check/thesaurus functions. Then copy and paste the word here.

G, S, E & M were taught to us in school, church and by our parents. It seems
that, today, these 'things' are NOT being taught or required by parents. The schools
are not able to teach many of the 'E & M' as their hands are tied by the parents
of the students.

If we mis-behaved in school, the "Paddle" was used by the Principal, and when we
arrived home it was worse from our parents. Now----Nobody cares. The attitude
of 'so what?' is prevalent in today's society. Some parents try to instill these qualities
into their children, and it takes discipline-which the children(old enough to
understand) cry 'child abuse'. This ties up the parents attempts to discipline and
guide their children towards a fulfilled and meaningful life.

When one is posting here, used properly, the 'written word' has power. We can
not write 'as we speak' as if in a conversation down at the street corner. We must
write as if we are giving a speech at a special meeting.

Being 'lax' in our writing skills tends to show the rest of the world the quality and
caliber of our education, or lack there of.

Now, this may seem like the ramblings of an Flatulus Antiquitess, but I'm placing
these thoughts into print while some other Cafe' Patrons are merely thinking of them.
(Think 'foot-in-mouth'.)

To all new Cafe' Patrons - Please read the guidelines of this establishment.
Following these 'guidelines' ensures you will have a marvelous time at the Cafe'.
To some of our existing Patrons, you may want to review the guidelines
to refresh your memory of our 'Code of Conduct' while at the Cafe'.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[sapphire]

Uncle Al,
You forgot P=Punctuation.

For a comprehensive and hilarious guide to punctuation, I highly recommend Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss.

[AMM]

Another letter: Q (quoting)

I've noticed that a lot of people post responses that don't make a lot of sense unless you know what they are responding to, but they don't quote what they're talking about.

A made up example:

I like Britney Spears

I don't like her, I like Hanna Montana

I don't like her, I think she can't carry a tune in a bucket.

Who is Z talking about?

Please make sure your responses quote (directly or indirecly) enough for us to figure out what you are responding to!

[r.m.anderson]

What!
You mean to say that I can not use text messaging 101 here!
Oh well I guess it is back to using the ole Smith & Balarney typewriter.
Formal use of English is a lost art and I would rather learn Russian.
This forum is not a formal court document or writ.
Simply people conveying thought to a medium (internet) to
express such thoughts to others.
We are not dealing in a foreign language; at least I don't think so,
so why the fuss over crossing a t and dotting an i.
Anything plain and simple to get the message across to others will work.
It is not as if a license to use the internet and its forums requires a
passing grade in an English final exam.
The only concession I would make is; Yes! it would be nice if forums
could be cleaned up a bit to speed along the message of the sender.
But I am not ready at this point.
Now where did I put that cheat sheet for text messaging!
rm

[Since1982]

X wrote:
I like Britney Spears
Y wrote:
I don't like her, I like Hanna Montana
Z wrote:
I don't like her, I think she can't carry a tune in a bucket.

Ok...Who is Y talking to, (no "Oh really X, I don't like Britney Spears either, I like Hanna Montana!"
Z comes on with no "Ok, Y, I don't like Britney Spears or Hanna Montana, I don't think either can carry a tune in a bucket", what do you think, X?

Back a year or so ago, I was known on here as the "resident spellchecker" But, after being chastised several times for possibly upsetting or embarrassing people who either couldn't spell as well as a 2nd grader, didn't have a clue where punctuation went, or thought a Thesaurus was some kind of long fossilized dinosaur complained, I stopped trying. I stopped because I didn't want to hurt their feelings. Fact, IF someone hadn't spent his/her time teaching me all this "stuff" and "making" me learn it at the end of a 3 sided ruler, I wouldn't know it either.

Things change, when children started sueing their parents for parenting them, and winning, the end of the days when 90% of the population could spell and punctuate and 10% couldn't came to an end and the times of (As the movie title said, "Idiocracy" started) 30% could spell and punctuate and 70% couldn't and it's getting worse everytime a child is diagnosed with ADD and finds by screaming he doesn't HAVE to do anything he doesn't feel like doing, it gets worse. I don't know what the future holds, I hope we can get this in check, instill some pride in learning back in our children. I wish us luck. I probably won't be here too much longer, I'm sorry I have said all these sad things. Someone has to though.

[Uncle Al]

What!
You mean to say that I can not use text messaging 101 here! ? not !
-snip-
Formal use of English is a lost art and I would rather learn Russian.
If a student can't read or write in 'proper English', how does one expect that
student to be able to learn another language?
This forum is not a formal court document or writ. True!
Simply people conveying thought to a medium (internet) to express such thoughts to others.
How can a person convey those thoughts if the person can't spell the words being used?
We are not dealing in a foreign language; at least I don't think so,(but some of us
think we are)
so why the fuss over crossing a t and dotting an i. For that answer, see below the quote!
-snip-
Now where did I put that cheat sheet for text messaging!
rm

Granted, this is not a formal court document or writ, but being able to spell a
word correctly is a much easier way to convey a message, other than
'the author is an imbecile'. Yes, Sapphire is correct when she said I left out
P=Punctuation. When you begin a sentence, you are to capitalize the first word.
Even pronouns such as I, We, He, She-when used at the beginning of a
sentence-need to be capitalized. Grammar 101! {Yes, I let that one slip by me. }

When a person is speaking 'in-the-first-person' and uses the word 'I' anywhere
in a sentence, it is to be capitalized. Example - - "I went to the store.
While I was there, I also purchased a roll of paper towels for my kitchen".
Now an example of a bad statement - - "went to the store i bought a roll of paper
towels" - - No capitalized words, no grammer of any sort and no punctuation.
Now which sentence gave the complete information and you did not have to second
guess what really happened?

This is not 'learning Russian', this is trying to understand another English speaking
person who resides in the same country as you do. I understand there is a
difference in dialects, but dialects are not considered when writing a normal sentence.
Now, if you are trying to convey the sense of a dialect, then-by all means-write
in language used in that area/region where the dialect is found.

Skip used to help by being a 'spell checker' for the forum. ( I see his post snuck
in before this one.) We still need that function here. I do wish that either Bob or Carl
would be able to add 'spell check' to the list of 'buttons' at the top of the
'make a post/reply to a post page/function of the forum.

OK-I'm just tired of seeing people's level of education going down hill instead of up,
above and beyond other people, anywhere I look. At one time, the level of
writing for a newspaper was to be on an eighth grade level, nothing higher than
that. Now, it is on a third grade level as most people, born after 1965, really
can't understand things above a third grade level.
Why are we 'dumbing down' our standards and way of life instead of requiring the
'newcomers' to be up to our standards? Why don't we tell the parents that
their children will learn proper English, grammer and know how to spell words
and they-the parents-will be held responsible for the failure of their children?
In order for any school system to successfully teach children, the parents must
be behind the teachers with their support and not hindering the teachers ability
to teach their children right from wrong. As they teach math above the addition,
subtraction, multiplication and division, which are basics for every day life,
the children will not become lost but focused on a better way to succeed.

I was at a "Chicken Restaurant" (won't name any names here folks) and the clerk
gave me my bill of $14.51 to which I gave him $15.00 cash, and was searching for
the $.51 so I could have a single dollar bill back for change. I found the $.51 and
handed it to him. He became dumbfounded and told me he had already
'punched in' the money into the cash register. He also stated that he flunked math,
and wanted to know how much change I was to receive.
He was really flustered with this simple math problem, yet he was handling money,
counting change but he relied on the cash register to know how much change
a customer was to get back.

A sample of 'Where is this country going to?'

Therefore I say this is not formal English, but being able to use basic spelling,
grammer and punctuation is a must if anyone is to succeed in life.

Uncle Al, who is putting away the
Duncanville, TX

[crfriend]

Grammer 101!

Al, shouldn't that be "Grammar 101"? {duck-and-cover}

All grammar is is a set of rules that state how pieces of a language are put together in order to yield a coherent means of communication -- and it's not just human languages that have grammars either. Virtually all formal languages (of which human languages are part) have grammars including most artificial languages like programming languages and made-up ones like Klingon. We ignore these grammars at the risk of a reader (or listener or mechanical device) misconstruing what we intended to communicate.

I do wish that either Bob or Carl
would be able to add 'spell check' to the list of 'buttons' at the top of the
'make a post/reply to a post page/function of the forum.

Perhaps at some point in time the phpBB folks will get 'round to making plug-ins available for such a facility, but in the interim it's up to the various authors to do at least a little bit of proof-reading of their works.

There are some client-side facilities that exist, and they vary from platform to platform and range from really very good to non-existent. For instance, the browser I use (Konqueror) shades questionably-spelled words in red as the writer (or typist) leaves them behind. Other tools will have different tool-sets available in them.

Note: I am not about to become a spelling Nazi. It takes more energy than the return is worth. I do get prickly when I see supposedly professionally-written pieces (e.g. newspaper articles) with glaring errors in them, but I try not to get hot under the collar when dealing in the "on-line world". That does not mean, however, that I do not attempt to apply some rigour to my writing. (I get into trouble for this at work; my writing style sends the Boss Class diving for dictionaries more often than they'd like.)

OK-I'm just tired of seeing peoples level of education going down hill instead of up,
above and beyond other people, anywhere I look.

The amount of intelligence in the universe is a constant. The population is increasing. Draw your own conclusions.

[Jock]

For a comprehensive and hilarious guide to punctuation, I highly recommend Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss.

Lynne Truss' book "Talk to the Hand" is perhaps more appropriate. In this book (about rudeness) she tells of the modern attitude of "let someone else bother". I can't be faffed to spell, punctualte, etc. and I'll just leave it to the readers of my post to try and figure out what I'm saying, says our poster.


My own attitude to poorly written posts ( yes, they do occur on this board) is to ignore them. It's not worth my effort either. If I'm feeling particularly grouchy I might just manage to respond with "Que?

For the most part our board members are considerate and show respect for others. G, S, E & M are part of that respect for one's readers.

I would also like to associate myself with the remarks of Uncle Al. Well stated, Sir!

E&OE !

[Uncle Al]

Grammer 101!

Al, shouldn't that be "Grammar 101"? {duck-and-cover}

Carl,

Please notice that I've corrected my previous post
After 3 hours creating that post, I'm lucky that only one error got by me
instead of the rest that I found through Proof-Reading it 'umpteen zillion' times

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

P.S. Thanks Jock

[Milfmog]

I thought I'd add my voice in moral support for your stance here Al.

My spelling is not too great, so I use Firefox with the spell checker add on, it's not perfect but it catches most of my obvious misspellings and typos. As for grammar I guess mine is functional rather than good, it is simply something I was never taught at school but have had to learn as I go along. I really must buy a copy of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves". I'm sure I would learn more than enough to justify the price.

Have fun,


Ian.

[sapphire]

Ian,
Both of us were laughing out loud at Eats, Shoots and Leaves. Enjoy.

Uncle Al,
Err.......

peoples level of education

Shouldn't that have an apostrophe somewhere?

newcombers

What is a newcomber? Is it someone who was previously unaccustomed to combing his or her hair, or did you mean "newcomer", a person who is new to a group?

Sorry.... The Devil made me do that

[Pythos]

I is a good spelllller and can speek the enlish langooage really well.
My edumacation was at the top of the classs.
I reelely don't like getting told to mine my peess and q's by others

LOL.

I actually agree with Uncle Al on this, though I am more than sure I am guilty of horrible grammar, and in some cases spelling. That is why when I type a word, and hit space, and then notice a little red dashed line under what I wrote, I take heed. Ah spell check, what a glorious thing for dummies like me.

My reason for agreeing however is not really for members here, but for others coming in to join. I have been put off by sites for other things where the spelling and grammar puts the gaffs here to shame. Usually they are due to horrible interpreting software, but sometimes it is just that the poster is an imbecile (I needed spell check for that one:). I find myself just leaving the site, or not even joining, or meaner still putting that poster on the ignore list.

I would think we here want to put across the image that participants in our little movement here are well educated and know simple grammar.

[sapphire]

Pythos,
Normally I would agree with you. While I was still in industry, I'd get all riled up at those above or next to me in the corporate ladder who were semi literate. Early on, I had one semi literate supervisor who push all of my "bad" buttons. She became too fightened to speak to me directly and would leave notes for me. I would correct her spelling and grammar in red ink and then answer her question(s).

I admit that was arrogant, but it felt good.

I would like to point out that while we are all having too much fun with this thread, we need to keep in mind that there are members of this list for whom English/American/Australian is a second language. These members do their best to communicate and participate. In my opinion we should not criticize their improper use of "our" language, but make an attempt to understand.
Sapphire

[Uncle Al]

I would like to point out that while we are all having too much fun with this thread,
we need to keep in mind that there are members of this list for whom
English/American/Australian is a second language. These members do their best to
communicate and participate. In my opinion we should not criticize their improper use
of "our" language, but make an attempt to understand.
Sapphire

Sapphire, You left out British/Scottish English

I was not referring to anyone beyond the U.S. borders.

Yes, we're having fun with this , but at the same time, I hope we all can learn something
from this. The U.S. Education System used to be one of the best. Now it is questionable
whether we, the U.S., will ever be back in the Top Ten as a place to acquire a good education.

(I did correct my other spelling errors that you so kindly pointed out. )
(Also note that a 3:28 AM it is a bit hard to concentrate on what I was trying to say.)

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[AMM]

I would say that readers -- here at the Cafe or elsewhere -- shouldn't be playing 8th grade English teacher and red-penciling every misplaced comma. We can survive the occasional speling error, AWOL antecedent, etc., if they don't interfere with understanding what the poster is trying to say. Besides, some spelling errors are kind of fun -- e.g., "beyond US Boarders" calls up an image of a country brought so low by the current economic crisis that the entire country has to "take in boarders."

But there comes a point at which bad spelling, grammar, and punctuation, and lack of logical sequence make a post unreadable. I've run across a number of posts where teasing out a coherent line of thought was a puzzle worthy of the famed Mr. Will Shortz. This has nothing to do with not being a native speaker of English -- the worst offenders here are people who are clearly Anglophones.

My feeling is that if a poster can't be bothered to write a post that's clear enough that we don't have to play 20 questions just to figure out what the heck he is getting at, why should I bother to read it?