Greetings all,
My wife has pointed out to me that girls are trained from early on with the proper techniques for sitting, bending over and generally conducting themselves while skirted. Guys generally don't receive that training.
Since kilts have been around for quite a while, it occurs to me that there may be some proper etiquette for kilting and these may well translate into to skirting as well for guys.
Thus, are any of you aware of any such rules of conduct and do they differ from what women are taught?
Skirting and Kilting Etiquette
Skirting and Kilting Etiquette
-John
______________________
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself (Rick Nelson "Garden Party")
______________________
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself (Rick Nelson "Garden Party")
-
crfriend
- Master Barista
- Posts: 15151
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
- Location: New England (U.S.)
- Contact:
Re: Skirting and Kilting Etiquette
Whilst I cannot state with any authority "rules" on "kilt etiquette", I can say that one heck of a lot of one's behaviours whilst skirted can come down to common sense.JRMILLER wrote:My wife has pointed out to me that girls are trained from early on with the proper techniques for sitting, bending over and generally conducting themselves while skirted. Guys generally don't receive that training.
On lifting, for instance, one would bend down at the knees, grasp the object to be lifted, and rise, using one's legs for power and thrust. This has the benefit of being better posture for such activities in addition to not exposing one's backside! Bending at the knees rather than the waist has big advantages. A potential pitfall here is that if you descend too fast in a short light-weight skirt it will tend to billow (just beware), so controlling the descent can be important.
On wind: Kilts are generally heavy enough so they don't lift all that much, and given all the heavy pleating, a small lift might not expose that much. This is not necessarily the case with skirts, which can be quite light-weight (heavier ones, of course, stay "down" better than light ones, but have other issues); in this case it comes down to awareness of one's surroundings (which is never a bad idea, anyway) and being able to, at a reflex, counter a lift with one's hands.
Sitting, likewise, involves being aware of one's surroundings; keeping one's knees together whist sitting face-in to a bar is nowhere near as necessary as keeping them together whilst sitting at a high table in a bar. Tactics of sitting and arising are, again, largely common sense (and how many of us have had lapses in that?) and focus on managing the garment in ways that (1) keep us modest, (2) don't damage the garment, and (3) try to keep things clean. On sitting, gently sweep the garment under you as you sit so it's not bunched up (those creases will be there when you stand up, so it's best not to put any more in than are supposed to be there); if it's short enough that the knees need to be together, run the process through in your mind before starting the physical process (here's where you focus on what's around you, and what the various sight-lines are), and finally execute. Arising is usually fairly uncomplicated, but it helps to gently smooth things out once up; again, if you're dealing with something short, mentally rehearse the process before initiating it.
In general, it's always easier to anticipate a problem and have a workaround handy than it is to improvise on the spot (again, common sense) and , over time, the required behaviours just become automatic -- you may, in fact, catch yourself making the motions even when wearing trousers. There's nothing wrong in that, and nobody but the most observant will even notice. One interesting thing I've noticed since I started wearing skirts is that my movements have gradually gotten less jerky an, in general, I'm more graceful than I used to be many years ago -- in and of itself, that's a big win.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
I know a girl who is horrible at doing anything in a skirt or a dress, in fact I had to teach her before she went to a school function. Told her to cross her legs and if she can't do that to keep them together and cross her ankles (makes it easier to keep the knees together).
She still has trouble doing this and her parents aren't doing anything to help this. Oddly, most girls just get told "You do this because you're a girl, and this is what girls do". Which is about the lamest reason I've ever heard. I told this girl (about 13) that guys will in the future more than now, use every attempt that they can get to look up it and see what you're wearing and stare if they want to. She's also not going to be 100% secure and will have to "let" the guys see up it once in a while just because the legs can't hold that position forever, and the muscles need a break. You're going to give someone a peak, it's just going to happen, not much you can do except make sure you're wearing something under the skirt, and make sure it's something you don't mind them seeing.
She still has trouble doing this and her parents aren't doing anything to help this. Oddly, most girls just get told "You do this because you're a girl, and this is what girls do". Which is about the lamest reason I've ever heard. I told this girl (about 13) that guys will in the future more than now, use every attempt that they can get to look up it and see what you're wearing and stare if they want to. She's also not going to be 100% secure and will have to "let" the guys see up it once in a while just because the legs can't hold that position forever, and the muscles need a break. You're going to give someone a peak, it's just going to happen, not much you can do except make sure you're wearing something under the skirt, and make sure it's something you don't mind them seeing.
-
crfriend
- Master Barista
- Posts: 15151
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
- Location: New England (U.S.)
- Contact:
I'll second that one, but will not use it as an "excuse" not to wear shorter styles when the fancy hits me. Yes, short ones require some "behavioural modifications" but if this 40+ old codger can learn the skills, anybody should be able to.SkirtDude wrote:The beauty of long skirts is they let you "get away" with a lot more than shorter skirts. The only tricks I've really had to learn are to hike up the front when climbing stairs and to enter a car by first sitting and then turning.
Sometimes longer skirts have problems, too. It took me months of practise not to shut the hem in my car door almost every time I got in -- and even now, I double-check every time just to make sure.
As far as girls not knowing how to manage skirts these days, that's not really terribly surprising. They grow up in jeans, which is what their mothers wear, and may never be exposed to actually wearing skirts. They have to learn how to do it just the same way as us lot have to -- the difference is that typically those skills were passed from mother to daughter in the daughter's childhood whereas the boys, destined for a life in trousers, never had a need for such specialised knowledge.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
-
AMM
- Member Extraordinaire
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:01 pm
- Location: Thanks for all the fish!
As far as I can tell, skirting "etiquette" (decency rules, actually) mainly revolve around not showing more of what's under the skirt/kilt than is socially acceptable. (Back in the days when skirts were more substantial, I suspect there were also rules about not bashing things with them.)
What you have to do depends upon the style of skirt.
The view from the front
For the short, tight skirts that are so popular here, you have to keep your knees together while sitting and seated. Anything that spreads your legs, including ankle-on-thigh, will "expose" you. (Here, I'm assuming you're sitting on a Western-style chair. If you kneel, Japanese style, you won't have that problem.) Sitting on the floor requires a lot of practice if you don't want to "flash" people on the way down or up, and I notice women who do it in short skirts generally sit with both knees turned to the same side.
The same goes for (traditional) kilts, because the apron (the front part) is flat and doesn't go over the knees. As mentioned in this threads, there is no shortage of photos on the web in which a kilt-wearing man is showing everybody exactly what he's proud of
. Since I can't hold my knees together when sitting, I've made some black half-slips to wear under my kilt, which have some extra fabric in front that falls down between my legs when I sit.
If you're wearing a short, but flared or full skirt, it's easier. You just have to pull the fabric to the front and down when you sit, and make sure the front of the skirt falls between your knees. Sitting cross-legged on the floor works fine with such a skirt.
Longer (over-the-knee) skirts aren't much of a problem as long as you make sure you don't accidentally hike them up too far while sitting down.
Finally, someone posted (either here or at the Atrium) a link to a video clip showing how to get into and out of a car while wearing a micro-mini skirt. It evidently takes practice, and they conclude by mentioning that you'd better have something on underneath that won't embarrass you if (well, when) people see it.
Sweeping the Pleats
Fuller skirts and kilts have the second issue of making sure you don't sit on a wad of fabric. It involves sweeping your hands down your bottom to make sure the fabric is where it belongs -- there's a video clip on XMarksTheScot called "sweep the pleats," and I've found it's particularly difficult with kilts to keep the pleats laid properly when you sit. For the kind of skirts I wear, I just use both hands to sweep the fabric from behind to the front before I sit. When I see women do it, I find it quite fetching, but I don't know what folks think when they see me do it.
Very Long Skirts
With ankle-length or longer skirts, the problem is how not to step on your skirt or trip. You may need to adjust how you step so the hem doesn't hit the ground, and you will need to have both hands free any time you go up or down a step or stairs. This includes going into most homes.
No-Nos
There are some things you just shouldn't do in a skirt:
For instance, sitting with your knees pulled up to your chest:
Just don't do it.
With any but the longest skirts, you're going to expose a lot more than you think. I saw a young woman do this and got to see this first-hand. I spent the half-hour until she got up wondering whether I should say anything. I once tested it on my bed facing the mirror on the dresser and found that even after pulling the hem down, skirts under about 33 inches long exposed me in this position.
Yet another thing to watch out for: climbing ladders, or anything where people will be directly below you. Just don't do it, unless they're real good friends
Marilyn Monroes
One thing I can't advise anybody on very much is the problem of skirts flying up. I've seen dancers twirl so the skirt goes up to their waist, but I can't make any of my skirts do this. Nor have I had a problem with breezes, except with kilts -- the open edge of the apron tends to catch the wind.
What you have to do depends upon the style of skirt.
The view from the front
For the short, tight skirts that are so popular here, you have to keep your knees together while sitting and seated. Anything that spreads your legs, including ankle-on-thigh, will "expose" you. (Here, I'm assuming you're sitting on a Western-style chair. If you kneel, Japanese style, you won't have that problem.) Sitting on the floor requires a lot of practice if you don't want to "flash" people on the way down or up, and I notice women who do it in short skirts generally sit with both knees turned to the same side.
The same goes for (traditional) kilts, because the apron (the front part) is flat and doesn't go over the knees. As mentioned in this threads, there is no shortage of photos on the web in which a kilt-wearing man is showing everybody exactly what he's proud of
. Since I can't hold my knees together when sitting, I've made some black half-slips to wear under my kilt, which have some extra fabric in front that falls down between my legs when I sit.If you're wearing a short, but flared or full skirt, it's easier. You just have to pull the fabric to the front and down when you sit, and make sure the front of the skirt falls between your knees. Sitting cross-legged on the floor works fine with such a skirt.
Longer (over-the-knee) skirts aren't much of a problem as long as you make sure you don't accidentally hike them up too far while sitting down.
Finally, someone posted (either here or at the Atrium) a link to a video clip showing how to get into and out of a car while wearing a micro-mini skirt. It evidently takes practice, and they conclude by mentioning that you'd better have something on underneath that won't embarrass you if (well, when) people see it.
Sweeping the Pleats
Fuller skirts and kilts have the second issue of making sure you don't sit on a wad of fabric. It involves sweeping your hands down your bottom to make sure the fabric is where it belongs -- there's a video clip on XMarksTheScot called "sweep the pleats," and I've found it's particularly difficult with kilts to keep the pleats laid properly when you sit. For the kind of skirts I wear, I just use both hands to sweep the fabric from behind to the front before I sit. When I see women do it, I find it quite fetching, but I don't know what folks think when they see me do it.
Very Long Skirts
With ankle-length or longer skirts, the problem is how not to step on your skirt or trip. You may need to adjust how you step so the hem doesn't hit the ground, and you will need to have both hands free any time you go up or down a step or stairs. This includes going into most homes.
No-Nos
There are some things you just shouldn't do in a skirt:
For instance, sitting with your knees pulled up to your chest:
Just don't do it.
With any but the longest skirts, you're going to expose a lot more than you think. I saw a young woman do this and got to see this first-hand. I spent the half-hour until she got up wondering whether I should say anything. I once tested it on my bed facing the mirror on the dresser and found that even after pulling the hem down, skirts under about 33 inches long exposed me in this position.
Yet another thing to watch out for: climbing ladders, or anything where people will be directly below you. Just don't do it, unless they're real good friends
Marilyn Monroes
One thing I can't advise anybody on very much is the problem of skirts flying up. I've seen dancers twirl so the skirt goes up to their waist, but I can't make any of my skirts do this. Nor have I had a problem with breezes, except with kilts -- the open edge of the apron tends to catch the wind.
-
Sasquatch
- Member Extraordinaire
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:18 am
- Location: North Carolina coast
I believe I'll stick to skirts of knee length or greater. I wouldn't be able to sit with my legs together as my pelvis isn't broad like a woman's. Keeping my legs closed like that would defeat a key factor in the joy of skirting, that is comfort for "my boys". IMO, if you have to sit like that (which I call, in yoga-esque terms, the "nutcracker position") then you might as well just wear trousers.
My older brother, however, could sit with legs crossed like a woman for hours, and often does. He's built for a skirt, but it's not his calling. I'm convinced that, by some quirk of heredity, he was born with a woman's pelvis, providing him natural space between the thighs for his junk.
It wouldn't matter how much skirt etiquette I practiced; sooner or later I would lapse into a position that feels normal.
Sasq
My older brother, however, could sit with legs crossed like a woman for hours, and often does. He's built for a skirt, but it's not his calling. I'm convinced that, by some quirk of heredity, he was born with a woman's pelvis, providing him natural space between the thighs for his junk.
It wouldn't matter how much skirt etiquette I practiced; sooner or later I would lapse into a position that feels normal.
Sasq
Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!
Hunter/Garcia
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!
Hunter/Garcia
It is funny. Aside from my first time in a mini-skirt where my girl friend at the time had to advise me that bending at the waist was something not to do in such a thing.
However, medium length skirts, and long skirts I took to almost naturally. I needed no "training" how to maneuver in my long rayon broomstick skirt, The first time I ascended some steps wearing it I naturally pulled up the hem so as not to step on it on the way up. The same for descending stairs. With this skirt there is not much else to deal with. The shorter skirts I naturally swept the skirt forward as I sat down. This may have been from my observations of women doing likewise in such garments.
I feel more "stable" with my legs crossed at the knees than I do with my knees apart. It makes no sense I know, but that is something I naturally have done since I was a little kid. My dad tried to stop me from doing it by insulting me, and I did for a very small amount of time, but over time I resumed. When skirted I cross my knees BEFORE I take a seat. When I stand I stand up most of the way with my knees crossed, when the opening of the skirt is mostly downward my legs uncross. This is all automatic.
I really wish more men did this or other "modest" ways of sitting. I really despise the legs wide apart, sloppy look guys seem to take. I don't know, perhaps it is equipment size. If it is, I am glad I have what I have, cause that way of sitting just looks terrible to me.
Oh and girls not knowing how to sit in skirts, definitely a product of this one sided sexual revolution we have gone through.
However, medium length skirts, and long skirts I took to almost naturally. I needed no "training" how to maneuver in my long rayon broomstick skirt, The first time I ascended some steps wearing it I naturally pulled up the hem so as not to step on it on the way up. The same for descending stairs. With this skirt there is not much else to deal with. The shorter skirts I naturally swept the skirt forward as I sat down. This may have been from my observations of women doing likewise in such garments.
I feel more "stable" with my legs crossed at the knees than I do with my knees apart. It makes no sense I know, but that is something I naturally have done since I was a little kid. My dad tried to stop me from doing it by insulting me, and I did for a very small amount of time, but over time I resumed. When skirted I cross my knees BEFORE I take a seat. When I stand I stand up most of the way with my knees crossed, when the opening of the skirt is mostly downward my legs uncross. This is all automatic.
I really wish more men did this or other "modest" ways of sitting. I really despise the legs wide apart, sloppy look guys seem to take. I don't know, perhaps it is equipment size. If it is, I am glad I have what I have, cause that way of sitting just looks terrible to me.
Oh and girls not knowing how to sit in skirts, definitely a product of this one sided sexual revolution we have gone through.
-
crfriend
- Master Barista
- Posts: 15151
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
- Location: New England (U.S.)
- Contact:
On fly-ups.
This phenomenon just takes very fast reflexes, and a willingness (plus preparedness) to use said reflexes. Depending on where one's hands are at any given point in time, they may be anywhere from inches from the garment to a couple of feet away. If they're close, merely close down next to the skirt, "take the wind out of it", and make it behave; from father away, the motion will be more noticeable, but folks around will understand. The important thing is to "spill the wind", and spill it quickly (think sails); sometimes this means manually swishing the skirt to bleed off pressure.AMM wrote:Marilyn Monroes
One thing I can't advise anybody on very much is the problem of skirts flying up. I've seen dancers twirl so the skirt goes up to their waist, but I can't make any of my skirts do this. Nor have I had a problem with breezes, except with kilts -- the open edge of the apron tends to catch the wind.
Note that the classic "Marilyn" pose involved a static hold, not a conscious attempt to suppress the lift -- it was also completely contrived and caused quite a bit of pain to her husband of the time. Is this the sort of thing that we'd do to make skirt-wearing by men (more) acceptable?
The shortest of the minis that I have is prone to lifting, and it's something I have to continually bear in mind; with that garment, I have perhaps three-quarters of a second to do something unless I want folks to see tomorrow's washing.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
All this comes down to is really the way you think. ( I'm looking for the right word 
) your inclination, how respectful, thoughtful you are, how aware of others you are. It's in your manners.
When you don't want to "surprise"
others, you will act accordingly. When men are ignorant, they most likely wil still behave so in a skirt.
As for walking elaegantly also the same rules apply. It's all in who you are. If you are the very manly "wood chopper / worker " type then you may want to show a rough around the edges style. If you are a neat suburban commuter type ( gotta give it a name) then your manners may be more refined, while still being manly, but more graceful, letting skirts flow gracefully, and enjoying every moment of that wonderful experience, just like floating through the air. At least I think so.
Skirt wearing should be ebjoyable, in all of which ways you wear them, but always respect others, and never be a flasher as the man on the lawnmower,
With a little practice and good common sense, we should all be responsible skirt wearers, enjoying the experience and while doing so assuring an enjoyable experience for thase who happen to see us.
Peter v.
Ps, I seem to get behind the screen less lately, so my input may be less intense, but I still wear skirts every day out in public, and am still very active where possible to get men in skirts known to the public.
) your inclination, how respectful, thoughtful you are, how aware of others you are. It's in your manners. When you don't want to "surprise"
others, you will act accordingly. When men are ignorant, they most likely wil still behave so in a skirt. As for walking elaegantly also the same rules apply. It's all in who you are. If you are the very manly "wood chopper / worker " type then you may want to show a rough around the edges style. If you are a neat suburban commuter type ( gotta give it a name) then your manners may be more refined, while still being manly, but more graceful, letting skirts flow gracefully, and enjoying every moment of that wonderful experience, just like floating through the air. At least I think so.
Skirt wearing should be ebjoyable, in all of which ways you wear them, but always respect others, and never be a flasher as the man on the lawnmower,
With a little practice and good common sense, we should all be responsible skirt wearers, enjoying the experience and while doing so assuring an enjoyable experience for thase who happen to see us.
Peter v.
Ps, I seem to get behind the screen less lately, so my input may be less intense, but I still wear skirts every day out in public, and am still very active where possible to get men in skirts known to the public.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
Hi,
I'm new to this forum. As a Scot living in France I can enlighten you with the traditional way to sit with a heavyweight scottish kilt. It is to sit with legs comfortably apart and as one descends you push the front panel down between the legs, ensuring it is always lower than the groin. In traditional Scottish dress the sporran aids this!
Although wearing a kilt is easy for me I find it somewhat heavy for warmer climates, therfore I much prefer skirts or kilted skirts made of lighter materials. I should point out that the above method of sitting doesn't quite work with lightweight materials!
XP64
I'm new to this forum. As a Scot living in France I can enlighten you with the traditional way to sit with a heavyweight scottish kilt. It is to sit with legs comfortably apart and as one descends you push the front panel down between the legs, ensuring it is always lower than the groin. In traditional Scottish dress the sporran aids this!
Although wearing a kilt is easy for me I find it somewhat heavy for warmer climates, therfore I much prefer skirts or kilted skirts made of lighter materials. I should point out that the above method of sitting doesn't quite work with lightweight materials!
XP64
OT: france
Hi XP,XP64 wrote: I'm new to this forum. As a Scot living in France...
XP64
another stranger in France... Welcome!
I'm also new in here, german, -and living in the '33' (Bordeaux) -area. I guess, the "64" in your username refers the departement pyrénées-atlantique?
Peter
OT: france
Hi XP,XP64 wrote: I'm new to this forum. As a Scot living in France...
XP64
another stranger in France... Welcome!
I'm also new in here, german, -and living in the '33' (Bordeaux) -area. I guess, the "64" in your username refers the departement pyrénées-atlantique?
Peter
I find it difficult to cross my legs in a skirt or jeans because my legs are so big. I do however agree about how to lift in a skirt, it's strange that a skirt would actually almost force you to lift something with the right form.
It would be a good training exercise if I were in retail or somewhere that required frequent lifting. Back on the topic. I try to keep my legs together as much as possible when I'm in jeans or a skirt. Something else I've also found is that working on a car isn't at all advisable in a skirt. You just have to get into too many awkward positions that would show everyone, everything. I thought about working on my car with the garage door open in a skirt because it was warm outside, but since many kids walk by the house on weekdays at all hours. The thought of being a sick guy that flashes young girls deterred me from the idea. As I know, we have enough crap to defend ourselves and purpose from. I'm not even going to attempt to do something that would take 2 or 3 steps back.
It would be a good training exercise if I were in retail or somewhere that required frequent lifting. Back on the topic. I try to keep my legs together as much as possible when I'm in jeans or a skirt. Something else I've also found is that working on a car isn't at all advisable in a skirt. You just have to get into too many awkward positions that would show everyone, everything. I thought about working on my car with the garage door open in a skirt because it was warm outside, but since many kids walk by the house on weekdays at all hours. The thought of being a sick guy that flashes young girls deterred me from the idea. As I know, we have enough crap to defend ourselves and purpose from. I'm not even going to attempt to do something that would take 2 or 3 steps back.
Bri, your fear is understandable. However...lose it. If you have no intention of flashing passersby, then wear your skirt with pride.
If we keep hiding for such reasons then we will NEVER get the freedom we desire.
If some little twit accuses you of flashing, have the little something tell the authorities what you had on beneath the skirt. The answer will most likely be wrong.
If we keep hiding for such reasons then we will NEVER get the freedom we desire.
If some little twit accuses you of flashing, have the little something tell the authorities what you had on beneath the skirt. The answer will most likely be wrong.