IMFF

[knickerless]

I think ill feeling is a bit strong. I was just pointing out the different perspectives. Some interesting threads were terminated whereas those containing religion, politics and gun carrying seemed to have gone on and on - perhaps those issues are considered normal issues to discuss by some. But we all have a choice. No one forces anyone to look at any site and I like to have that choice as well. It is a bit like censoring TV - we all have the control of the remote and don't have to watch something if it doesn't please us.
Having said that this site has been kept free of SPAM and the fact that I check it twice a day for new posts must mean something.

Nick

[Big and Bashful]

I spend at least that much time reading all the incoming posts on this forum so time wouldn't be an issue for me. My memory of IMFF was that it had a very similar flavour to this one, it was just much quieter thanks to the spammers and was maybe a bit more liberal with tv and crossdresser type material. I like the way Bob has this site running and also like the erm, "aims and vision" the Cafe is doing a damn fine job of covering. Personally I am not sure what one of the threads is doing on here talking about violence and vengeance but as it is not descending into a flame war then why not? it is about the only thread I do not read on here currently.
If it was acceptable to the members to have another forum run with similar intentions to this one, I would like to help out. I even am guilty of being a European. Unfortunately not multi-lingual, but I don't remember IMFF having any none English topics, I would be totaly out of my depth with that!

[SkirtDude]

deleted

[Sarongman]

Skirt Dude, I'm sure there is at least one. Try putting "mannerock" (I think that is the correct spelling?) in your search engine.

[r.m.anderson]

Using Babelfish:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Crude translation -

English - German
Skirt = Rock
Cafe = Kaffee
SkirtCafe = Rock Kaffee

English - Dutch
Skirt = Rok
Cafe = Koffie
SkirtCafe = Rok Koffie

English - French
Skirt = Jupe
Cafe = Cafe de
SkirtCafe = Cafe de Jupe

English - Italian
Skirt = Pannello Esterno
Cafe = Caffe del
SkirtCafe = Caffe del Pannello Esterno

This is not an exact science - just playing around.
Maybe one of our members in the aforementioned countries could
provide a better translation.
rm

[AMM]

Using Babelfish:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Crude translation -

English - German
Skirt = Rock
Cafe = Kaffee
SkirtCafe = Rock Kaffee

...

Slight correction (as you are no doubt aware, babelfish's translations generally leave a lot to be desired):

Kaffee = what you drink
Cafe' (with acute accent) = place you drink coffee.

Also note that "Rock" is not only "skirt," but the English loan word referring to a style of music, so "Rockcafe" would generally be interpreted as a "club" (in the musical sense) dedicated to rock & roll. You'd probably have to forget about the English name and start from scratch to come up with a good German name for this group. The best I could come up with on short notice was "RoeckerKlub", but it's not very good.

[crfriend]

[...[A]s you are no doubt aware, babelfish's translations generally leave a lot to be desired)

I believe you may mean "Babblefish". Machine translators, even after all this time, are still woefully inadequate.

[Big and Bashful]

Veletron,
If Bob can do the technical wizardry and Charlie can supply the hosting, I am game to try running it.

[HockeySkirt]

My impression is that the traffic at all the various freestyle sites has been declining over the last 4 years or so. I mean SkirtCafe, Tom's Cafe (before it), Atrium, IMFF. Kiltmen (the kilt and MUG orientated site) has also declined. Geraden's tights blog started during this period, and so it experienced growth, but there's barely been activity there this year. Many of the other tights sites have gone offline.

X Marks The Scot is the only site that seems to have experienced significant growth over this period. I think this shows that many kilties are really only interested in kilt topics, and nothing else, and so appreciate a site specialising solely in kilt topics.

But why the decline in all the other sites? Is it just kilties leaving? There are some site specific issues of course. IMFF going offline, Atrium evolving from freestyle to transgender, and ultimately becoming largely unmanaged (anyone seen Kris?). These issues have caused SkirtCafe to pick up quite a few members who are refugees from the other sites.

It does concern me that the traffic on these sites in total is a fraction of what it was 4 or so years ago. Why that is, I am not really sure. Has everyone lost interest, or have they all going somewhere else that I don't know about?

The reason I mention it now is that I wonder if it would entirely productive to move towards trying to split the traffic again. I was a fan of IMFF. I read it pretty much daily for 6-7 years (I don't really remember, it's a long time). IMFF was getting pretty slow in the months before it went offline. With slowing traffic, it might cause damage to split traffic back up again.

Given I was born in UK, I appreciate the issue some IMFF members have with the near obsession of a small number of USA members have about their politics, religious issues and guns (though Ziggy showed this is not a uniquely US characteristic). But I recall Noodles banned these topics years ago on Tom's Cafe, and that rule continues on SkirtCafe here doesn't? (X Marks seemed to implement the same rule shortly after Noodles did on Tom's Cafe.)

So what are the real differences between IMFF and SkirtCafe? What topics does SkirtCafe legally discuss that aren't desired by IMFF members? What did IMFF discuss that SkirtCafe does not seemingly allow? It might be more useful to analyse this, and work through this, rather than work to split traffic. Very often the response of one individual can be deemed to set the character of the site, but can be quite unrepresentative of the majority. If there are problems lets get them out in the open, debate them, have a poll.

Personally I'd favour Bob importing the IMFF archives into SkirtCafe, and Veletron pointing http://www.imff.net at SkirtCafe. Let's work to build one vibrant site, rather than a handful of very quiet sites.

HockeySkirt

[knickerless]

I don't recall IMFF being quiet. I know it got attacked by the spammers towards the end but there was still plenty of interest. IMFF did have a few nutters - they could have been one and the same person but they (he) left. Aside from the politics, religion and gun carrying - which although in therory are banned - but still pop up from time to time - this is a good site.
But I though we were getting somewhere with a UK/Europe based site to compliment (and not to outdo) this mainly American site. I could relate to the stories of yobbos in Crawley harassing one member and the dictatorial attitudes of the HR sections in Kent trying to sack another for wearing a skirt but I have no idea where the 'burbs are or some of the other places eluded to on this site where there seem to banjo shops on every street corner. Similarly our American friends probably can't understand how skirt wearing men in Wells, Bristol , Swindon and Buckingham have never met or seen each other but all post on a mostly American site. Having said that if any of our American friends on this site do come to our green and pleasant land I am sure we will all welcome them and perhaps even met up.


Needless to say I am in favour of 2 sites INFF and the cafe and will continue to read each daily and post if I want to.


Nick

[crfriend]

IAside from the politics, religion and gun carrying - which although in therory are banned - but still pop up from time to time - this is a good site.

Those topics aren't technically banned but rather "frowned upon". Experience has shown that those sorts of threads tend to inflame sensibilities to the point where they cease to be sensible which is why the moderators try to lean on them a bit. Aside from that, I completely agree with your thesis that this is a good site; it's got a large number of very different folks, which is good and healthy, and folks who try to get along well together which is the way a community (and that's how I like to perceive SkirtCafe) is supposed to work.

I could relate to the stories of yobbos in Crawley harassing one member and the dictatorial attitudes of the HR sections in Kent trying to sack another for wearing a skirt but I have no idea where the 'burbs are or some of the other places eluded to on this site where there seem to banjo shops on every street corner. Similarly our American friends probably can't understand how skirt wearing men in Wells, Bristol , Swindon and Buckingham have never met or seen each other but all post on a mostly American site.

This is one of the reasons why neither Bob nor I can successfully moderate a purely European forum -- we're (or at least I am) relatively unfamiliar with the European idiom, and even the one just across the English Channel. This is not to say that we do not enjoy hearing of things on the Eastern side of "the Pond"; I know that I do, and Bob quite likely does as well. But, we are very different societally (a good thing), and that's what makes it difficult for a Yank (unless he's an ex-pat Euro) to properly moderate a European forum.

Having said that if any of our American friends on this site do come to our green and pleasant land I am sure we will all welcome them and perhaps even met up.

That's what the "Meetups" forum is for! If I ever get to the other side of the Atlantic, I'd really like to meet with some of my fellow community members who don't happen to share my continent.

[Jock]

My impression is that the traffic at all the various freestyle sites has been declining over the last 4 years or so. I mean SkirtCafe, Tom's Cafe (before it), Atrium, IMFF. Kiltmen (the kilt and MUG orientated site) has also declined....
X Marks The Scot is the only site that seems to have experienced significant growth ...

I too have noticed this. I now only visit the cafe occasionally as the posts have lost interest for me. Virtually all the posters from Tom Manuel`s days now longer seem to post. X-Marks thrives, I believe, because it seems to have more emphasis on lifestyle rather than purely the garment.

On a happier note I also detect that skirt wearing for men ( at least in my area) has become a non-event, much as pants for women, and isn`t that what we want?

As to IMFF - ths was a great inspiration to me and I`d love to see the archives and photos on line. Otherwise, let it slide gracefully into the rosy memory of history.

[Bob]

Since I've been here, I've seen a steady stream of people come and go. Many of them, I believe, come to SkirtCafe wanting to wear skirts but afraid. They realize through conversation it's OK, and then they start doing it, and the world doesn't come to an end. Eventually, they have nothing to talk about, and drift away (skirted). To me, that is a success.

Some people try it, decide it's not for them, and then drift away as well.

In order to retain members for longer, SkirtCafe would have to talk about deeper issues --- I believe it would have to evolve more in the direction of a fashion-and-lifestyle magazine, complete with writers, articles and editors. But that costs $$ time, and so far no one's been inclined to do it. If someone with professional media experience wants to take a go at it as editor-in-chief, I'm willing to give it a whirl.

I've said many times before, I don't really care if SkirtCafe is popular or not. It's aimed to fill a particular "market niche." If no one has any interest in that niche any more, then it would save me effort to close it down. I believe that IMFF's niche is different enough from SkirtCafe to have them both reasonably co-exist.

[knickerless]

So what was decided in the end

Is IMFF coming back?

I for one will continue to participate on both sites.

Nick

[cessna152towser]

I don't think there is a need now for IMFF. While IMFF has been offline this forum has picked up quite a number of members in Europe, and indeed I feel Skirtcafe now has more of a European influence than Xmarksthescot. Both of these forums overlap to some extent but not entirely, there are some on xmarks with no interest in non-kilted skirts and conversely some on here who would not choose to wear a traditional heavyweight kilt. I only post on Skirtcafe and Xmarks and I see no need for another forum which would split the skirted male population. I think the reason for the decline in popularity of these forums is that more and more men are discovering that wearing a skirt is not the issue they feared it would be and therefore no longer find the need for support from forums such as this.