Why do we do it?

[Lucky]

I've been assessing my behaviors, and had to ask why do I like to wear skirts and tights. I'm not through this process yet, but I really felt that there was some truth in the article I'm going to link. It seems I'm spending a lot of time considering the behavior, and while I have a comfortable balance with wearing 'comfy' clothes, I still find it important to try to understand the why.

Please consider the response in the article and reflect upon it, and I apologize if the article, or similar thoughts, have appear on this site before. I don't believe I've seen this topic come up in recent times. It's just that I have this strong desire to express myself to others beyond my wife and it's driving me crazy because I don't understand the drive.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Counseling-1 ... ly-shy.htm

Oh, I guess I should mention it was the strong domineering mother figure in the family that I'm relating to.

[Bob]

Self-expression with one's body is well accepted, even socially mandated, for women. But it is frowned upon for men. There are basically no non-competitive physical activities (read: dance) for boys. For boys, any physical activity must be competitive. (And for girls, until recently, competitive physical activities were not available, but that's another story).

Some boys want bodily self-expression anyway. Some of us end up studying dance or something, surrounded by zillions of girls. In that setting, the power dynamic described in the article does come in. Ballet is one world in which the girls get most of the glory, and the boys are told in so many subtle ways that they only half belong and should be content playing a supporting role. Any normal ambitious person would not want to be a man in ballet for that reason. And the gender molding is very strong, there is little room for "deviant" dance students. I studied ballet (and danced professionally) because I loved it, and because I didn't realize to what extent it was a world of "separate and not equal" between the women and the men.

So to me... I think it's entirely natural that you would want to express yourself to others through the use of your body. Maybe unusual for a man, but in my book absolutely cool. For most of us, clothing (fashion) is probably the most important form of physical self-expression we have available.

But for the dancer, dance is an even more powerful form of self-expression. It's like life is in full color when you're dancing, vs. black-and-white on the street. This drive for incarnational self-expression and beauty is behind my desire to wear a skirt.

Eventually, I wound up in a position in which I hated being a man in ballet, but I was emotionally and physically unable to walk away from the art form --- the ultimate dysfunctional love/hate relationship. I moved forward by transitioning into playing more the ballerina role in the studio, starting with learning to dance en pointe and wearing the ballerina uniform (pink tights, leotard, ballet skirt). I know, it sounds weird, and it weirded me out too. But no one objected, and it produced an inner congruence I'd never experienced before. I was finally embodying the dancer (ballerina) I had always seen myself as since I was a little kid and I saw Copellia.

And since that time, I've found I'm less interested in wearing skirts outside the studio. Not completely disinterested, just less interested. It kind of makes sense --- like I've been fully incarnated in the full-color version of life, why does it matter what I wear in the black-and-white version? Ballet supersedes fashion. It's also very practical: the ballet studio is its own safe environment with well-defined boundaries and a high comfort level over time. I don't have to worry about some redneck bozo no matter how I present myself.

I'm only sorry that so many people never experience life in (this kind of) full-color. I know this might sound strange or elitist, but it's really how I feel. Yea, we dancers have a strange energy.

I hope this make some kind of sense in response to what you said. But hey, whatever I do, however I dress, please call me "Bob" and "he," because that is who I am.

Good to hear from you.

[Lucky]

I'm amazed at the energy you expended in responding to my question. For that, I am very thankful and appreciative.

I think what I'm feeling is a need for an outlet to express myself, as how I am, and not to have to deal with societal norms. While still not answering my 'why' question, I think I can further understand why my drive has increased. I think it's a desire to find an outlet to be me, and safe, and not judged. Maybe instead of going all out, I just need to find an environment where I can be comfortable. Maybe that's just with few select friends.... or with family. I don't know.

Since I'm most certain the best dance I can do is ballroom, I find your outlet will not be my solution. But I sincerely welcome and appreciate your offering. I guess I'm also a bit jealous of your honesty.

[SkirtedViking]

I can give you my motives:
1.It is more appropriate for the male genitals to wear a skirt/dress
2.At least in so called western societies it is ok for a woman to wear almost everything from men's apparel inlc. shoes and accessories and that makes me feel unequal to women-it is 21 century all people should have equal rights in socety no matter sex,religion etc.
3.It is more aesthetic to wear shoes and clothes not coming from the boring so called man's sections (hey,remember that is my opinion)-let's leave that "comfortable" stuff for many women that love to wear them
4.Most imortant do it as yourself and do not think that you are cross-dressing that term shall perish gradually with the establishment of male fashion freedom,women were called crossdressers before but not now,figure it out why.
5.I am straight,have a supportive girlfriend so you can do it too and i am so called masculine physically and shall never pass nor I want to pass as something else than a male,even I have a beard.

[crfriend]

I suspect that if one digs deep enough there are as many reasons for men wearing so-called "womens' garments" as there are men who do so; it's typically a deeply personal matter. So, all I can do is state my own reasons.

First off, the stuff that's customarily available for men is, in my opinion, simply dreadful boring stuff. There are only so many ways to arrange trousers and shirts, especially in today's bland casual world -- especially on any sort of budget. The notion of, "Will it be jeans and a t-shirt, jeans and a hoodie, dockers and polo, dockers and t-shirt (ad nauseum)" simply does not appeal to me one whit.

Secondly, skirts are wonderfully comfortable, and once one learns the basic techniques of wearing them almost as practical as trousers. Sure, there are some things I don't wear skirts for (e.g. climbing ladders or working on the car) but those are relatively few and far between.

Thirdly, they're different from what all the other blokes are wearing, which dovetails back into item one above. I am myself, and always have been; why should I dress like everybody else? Skirts enhance that uniqueness and allow me more expression than I had when I was a trousers-only slob.

Four: They're fun. Face it. What's wrong with that?

Bob's expression of the full-colour and black-and-white worlds was interesting, but I'd like to make the observation that one can achieve that world of glorious colour in many ways -- especially when doing things that are dear to one's soul. I get it when I'm fully absorbed in working on complex computer problems, and, yes, the day-to-day world does seem drab in comparison. But that's not a reason to condemn one's self to dressing to match the drab. Why not try to bring some colour and joy into that world by adding something fresh, bright, and new? And certainly, in these times, a bloke in a skirt is something very new.

[Bob]

I think there are as many reasons for a guy to wear a skirt as there are members of this board. It's always fascinating to see them all.

I get it when I'm fully absorbed in working on complex computer problems,

Interesting... when I'm fully absorbed in computer programs, that's very absorbing as well. But through the process, I become disembodied, hence no need to wear anything special in particular. For me, dance becomes the opposite of that. When I've been really absorbed in computer stuff, it takes more work to "come out" of that and have a body again and dance.

[Departed Member]

[quote="Bob"]I think there are as many reasons for a guy to wear a skirt as there are members of this board. It's always fascinating to see them all. [quote]

Bob's quite right, of course! The problem for many blokes who feel drawn to wearing a skirt (as opposed to tr*users), is that they are concerned that will be labelled 'cross-dressers' - invariably in a derogatory way. Women, outside of restrictive religious zones, for very many years now, in general wear whatever they like. Indeed, they are now starting to suffer what we refer to as, "Tr*user Tyranny" - in other words, they feel 'obligated', ('forced', in a growing number of circumstances) to don said garmets!

A number of men believe that to wear a skirt (any skirt) or dress, then they must go the 'whole hog' and do it as a woman. Most (no, sorry, I'll go further that that - the majority) don't manage to achieve a 'realistic' female appearance. So they stand out. Looking guilty, ashamed, furtive or just plain incongruous, they 'attract' unwanted attention. Hence, 'so-called 'cross-dressing' becomes an 'underground' (and thereby largely understood and derided) activity.

Most blokes here wear skirts, etc. for (again) widely different reasons - but with the universal premise that they have no wish to imitate (or be mistaken for) the female of the species. Regretably, the cross-dressers do us no favours (principally for the reasons noted above), by their actions/reputation/websites,etc.

From a purely personal perpective, it is purely the 'health & comfort' aspect that attracted me to skirts as a garment. More enlightened members of the medical profession have realised the potentially dangerous side-effects of tr*user-wearing - by both genders - therefore, I don't subscribe to the 'skirts for men/tr*users for women' theorists. My GP says, "If you were a woman, I'd recommend you didn't wear tr*users at all!" Well, thanks, then!

Equally, I don't give a d*mn about the 'fashion' side - another 'block' to the total acceptability of 'men's skirts' as a concept. We had skirts (punk/goth) in the Seventies for the younger element - 'til they 'went out of fashion' - too 'restricted' a market for general sale, unfortunately!

[JRMILLER]

First off, to "power", I can't say I feel particularly powerful in skirt, I know what it takes to generate personal power in this culture and for me it's a business suit with a red tie. I just don't particularly like the look or the feel of that clothing. But I can and have used it as necessary. Clothing can be a tool and the biz suit and red tie is just another tool.

WRT skirts, I just plain like them. I understand the way most people in our western culture view them, but I don't see anything inherently M or F about a skirt. It's just a garment, it's comfortable and I like the look. I don't feel or fancy myself as a woman when I wear a skirt, they belong to me, I am clearly M and that's the end of it. What others think speaks more to their misunderstanding, bias and shortcomings.

It's gonna take some time to turn things around -- if ever, but until then, we are the pioneers. Women co-opted our pants 40 years ago and the culture clearly "lost" that battle. If enough men have the courage of those women, we will overcome!

[AMM]

There's one motivation that I don't hear discussed much: wanting to "feel pretty."

In our culture (USA, but I suspect that this applies to at least the English-speaking world), being "pretty" is reserved for females, and something that males learn to avoid. (Quick quiz: how many of the men here would be offended if called "pretty"? How many would at least feel uncomfortable?)

Yet I think that before society gets hold of them, boys are as likely to gravitate towards pretty things as girls. On the one hand, there are plenty of girls and women who have no use for feminine clothing and put on a skirt or dress only under extreme pressure. On the other hand, I keep hearing stories about little boys who like dressing up as princesses and ballerinas, until the adults in their lives -- or, later on, their peers -- impress upon them in ways they cannot ignore just how unacceptable such behavior is.

I suspect that for many of the men here, it's not a motivation, but it is one for me. I mainly express it in my contra-dancing outfits, and the occasional thing I make that I only wear at home alone.

I don't see it as being connected with "wanting to be like a woman," because 90% of what women wear, even 90% of the stuff that women wear and men "can't" wear, just bores me. The women who wear them may be interesting to me, the clothes aren't. I go for bright colors and pastels, ruffles and lace, sheers, skirts that fly around, loose shirts (a century ago, we would have called them "blouses", before the word came to be exclusively for women.) The pretty and the flirtatious.

I'm still ambivalent about it -- I have a hard time with the idea of being a man and being pretty and flirtatious, but then I say, why can only girls and women be pretty, why is it so terrible for a man to be flirtatious?

This isn't my only motivation, and a lot of the time it takes more energy than I have to want to be pretty and conspicuous. Those are good days for denim or khaki skirts (long in the winter, shorter in the summer) and plain cotton shirts.

[Bri]

I do it because I want to, and when someone says "you're wearing a skirt" (I have yet to have that happen) I say "so".

My gf likes me in skirts and thinks that I'm hot when wearing them. She even suggests skirts off the net for me to either buy, or as ideas. Another thing she told me is that she gets very, very self concious when she's wearing a skirt because she wanders who's looking at her, what they're thinking and other things. Then she recently at the same time she told me how self concious she is in one, that she really thinks I'm very brave for doing it. Since I don't think anyone's going to say anything bad to her (cause she's a girl) for wearing one, but yet she knows that I will probably get some opposition for it. Also said that if she was in the same position as me, she couldn't do what I'm doing and that I'm much mentally stronger than her.

I just told her that, yes, it does take a brave will to do this, but it also takes a devoted, supportive relationship/person as well. I told her that I wouldn't be able to do what I do without her.

[Colin]

Why do we do it? Whatever the question, there is always the counter argument of "why not?". It could be a helpful way of looking at some questions.

[Sarongman]

Reasons for doing what we do are so diverse and so complex as to make a psych. doctoral student stress out. My reasons are, most probably, unique to me and began when, in 1981, as an Anglican seminarian, I had to wear a cassock/soutane to daily early Mass and, running late one morning, wrapped the cassock over my sleep shorts. It felt good and, I believe, something clicked in my brain saying this is something that I should have the freedom of experiencing on a regular basis. Firstly, having gone back to the "profane" world, I bought a couple of A line denim skirts from an LL Bean catalog(ue) and wore them in the isolation of the 250 bush acres I was living on with the vague guilt and shame that this was not the done thing. ( This brings up the interesting point. How many men are out there, not on this board who are at that stage in their development now?) It was only 10 years ago that I went to the stage of wearing sarongs out and about and only one year that I have come around to wearing skirts, without guilt, around the town streets- this with a little anger that I have denied myself this right through the unreasonable fear of "what others may think".

[crfriend]

Whatever the question, there is always the counter argument of "why not?". It could be a helpful way of looking at some questions.

That's the role of the "Devil's advocate" in many a debate -- and it can bring about surprising results. Sadly, it's a question that doesn't get asked anywhere nearly as much as it deserves to be.

Reasons for doing what we do are so diverse and so complex as to make a psych. doctoral student stress

My fear here is that at the post-graduate level their minds will have been, in this limited case, already contaminated by the DSM -- which holds that only men can "cross-dress", and that it's a mental disease. You'd need a fresh new mind, uncluttered with current "wisdom" to really think about the matter in a new light.

How many men are out there, not on this board who are at [the living with a vague sense of guilt] stage in their development now?

I'd posit a rather large number. I have no proof of this, but if the cross-section here (and the attention paid to the topic by professionals) is any indication, then it's a non-trivial percentage of the populace. The sad thing is that the folks in question (e.g. "John Q. Public who wears a skirt in the closet") don't "get" the fact that it's nothing to feel "guilty" about. It's just a piece of cloth, lads; nothing more, nothing less. Even Freud conceded that, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

[Sarongman]

I know it is the motto of the Order of the Garter, however, a t shirt enscribed "Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" Tr. Evil to him who thinks evil of it , could go down well with members of this board.

[Lucky]

The sad thing is that the folks in question (e.g. "John Q. Public who wears a skirt in the closet") don't "get" the fact that it's nothing to feel "guilty" about. It's just a piece of cloth, lads; nothing more, nothing less. Even Freud conceded that, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

I fully appreciate how rational that is. I've long known that 'it's just fabric.' However, having said that, I feel that there must be more to it. For instance, women do many other things that I'm sure most of us aren't inclined to do.

What it seems like to me is that we are picking and choosing elements of the female lifestyle. I'm curious as to how we set our boundaries, and if they mean anything. Or maybe why we set them where they are. For instance, I painfully concede that I find the idea of lace as unappealing, yet I experience a very strong comfort from wearing tights, which many on this board do not accept. What defines the boundary? Trauma? Comfort? Child-rearing? Community?

I am hoping that in finding some understanding, we can be free to express ourselves. Or at least myself