There are days where I wish I could leave my job,

[Pythos]

but not lose money.

Two days in a row, I have been subjected to conversations where women are not women. They are "b*****s". Correct me if I am wrong but a b**** is a female dog is it not? It is also a term used as slang for someone (not always female) who is not well liked.

First off, they had spare time, this is an aircraft shop, so where political correctness does not exist. Three of the guys were surfing the net durring a dead part of the day, and were looking at the listing for "escorts" in craigslist. This I did not mind. I hate the fact that women need to sell themselves in order to support their lives, whatever those involve, but it is their choice (usually). What pissed me off was what two of the guys constantly referred to the women as...B*****s.

"Oh hey, that b**** has got to have a great s****** (a new term I have been hearing to describe the female genitalia, very repugnant to me)... is just a small example of what I heard.

I had to seriously bite my tongue and keep my mouth shut.

But I did not feel happy about what I was keeping silent about. I wanted to say, "Hey, those are women, not b******, and they most likely do not like what they are doing, but need to do it cause they have no other skills due to being raised in a crappy family." Or some other preachy thing. But I didn't.

Conversations like this not only make me ashamed of being male, but really irritates me at the fact I am human. This is because I know women do this same kinda thing. Why is it this is becoming more and more prevelant. It is one aspect of "letting it all hang out" I could really do without.

[sapphire]

That sort of trash talk has been around for ages. It is disrespectful, divisive and ultimately harmful.

That's why I'm such a pest when I sense it creeping into this forum.

Trash talk should be eliminated whether discussing a person's sex or their clothing choices.

I don't think much else needs to be said on this topic.

[crfriend]

I had to seriously bite my tongue and keep my mouth shut.

But I did not feel happy about what I was keeping silent about.

The term "unredeemed Neanderthals" comes to mind but is quite likely libel on Neanderthals. A better, and more current, one might be simply "idiots". That sort of trash-talk is unacceptable in any company -- not just "polite company" -- and is exceedingly disrespectful and derogatory, and is, in the final analysis, needless. It's akin to using the "N word". You would have been within your rights to speak up. You'd have had to put up with some noise on the matter as those clowns clearly didn't know any better, but they'd have at least had a clue tossed at them. Another tactic is to ask them if they talk that way around their wives and girlfriends.

I find that I'm abandoning assorted derogatory terms that are specific to race and sex (things that are fundamentally "non-defensible" in a debate) in favour of generic terms like "moron" or "idiot". Inthat context, behaviours and actions can be called out, criticised, and possibly defended by the perpetrator (usually they're not). Hauling out terms that are slang for genitalia or skin colour are harmful to the criticiser's argument and unnecessarily inflammatory.

[Sarongman]

My thought was "b****y cretins. Amongst themselves, they thought they were extremely witty, however, to me they showed a general low Social Quotient.

[Peter v]

Glad to hear that we don't "like" to hear that soort of talk. The well known trouble with hearing that soort of talk, is how can you do something about that? How "strong" in body or mind are you to approach such stupid men, or women as the case may be, attend them about it that is is not respectful, without getting into a word fight or worse?

If at all possible, say something about it, most likely they will then murmer something and being ticked on the fingers, droop off. If they have no respect for others, it may get nasty, them turning on you. But that should not happen so easily.

It is just that nowadays it looks as if you can't say anything to someone without getting beaten up. At least there's a litle voice in the back of my mind that warns me about that, after several murders here all about nothing. I will say something about things that are wrong, but not every time.

If you work with people, and the hierarchy is clear, you "know" each other, then you should say something about it.

I think it is unacceptable, especially in a job situation.

I think it is terrible, that people act so respectless, showing it with words.

But you can't win all battles. So there is no shame that you may not let your voice be heard.

It is as I have had in my own experience, a situation that makes you think, I can't change them, so what am "I" still doing here?
Just one of those things in life, but you don't stand alone in your thinking, Pythos.

Peter v.

[Since1982]

I'd not insult any humanoid of any kind, Neanderthal, Cro-magnon, Piltdown, or any other type of primate by associating them with human?? dimwits. A dimwit can be of any type. It's all in the parental raising or peer pressure learning. For instance, my father, who I loved but couldn't get along with because of certain things he believed, was born in 1915 and was raised in the south and learned? early on from his parents that anyone except caucasians were inferior. He tried to instill these beliefs in me. It didn't take. My dad was a card carrying member of the "Invisible Empire" and had a custom sewn white and red robe with a pointy hat. He and my main argument was over black people. He insisted they were inferior. One day, when I was about 17 I asked him to tell me exactly how blacks were inferior...he said, "in all ways" I said to him, "If you put an Asian, an Indian (American native), a Hispanic, a black, and a white side by side, skinned them all and dressed them alike, how could he tell the difference? His answer was soooo unintelligent that we didn't talk at all much after that and I moved out when I reached 18 permanently.

His answer was...."I can tell the difference because we're better"...asking him to explain how he knew which skinned humans were "us" was a waste of time. The answer was a simpleminded, "because I can".

I loved my dad, I just didn't "like" him.

Moral of this piece is..You just can't argue with hard headed people.

[JRMILLER]

Skip,
I will add my 2 cents about my dad. We grew up in northern Ohio and although he didn't have the robe and pointy hat, I do believe he would have joined there been a local chapter. Otherwise, he was a nice guy.

During highschool, I invited my friend Eric to visit. Eric had shoulder length hair. Eric and I sang together in the highschool chorus, in the bass section. Anyway, as soon as Eric stepped out of his car, my father burst out of the front door of his house and demanded the Eric get back in his car and leave the premises. Dad was very angry, red faced and his arms were flailing and pointing -- get the picture?

Of course, it was the most embarrassing moment of my young life. Eric took it in stride and didn't cut his hair. We remained friends.

Do you suppose he would have had a similar reaction had I or one of my friends waltzed in wearing a skirt?

There seems to be some sort of poetic justice at work here, that fathers like ours have kids like us!

I absolutely agree with Pythos on this subject and have never participated in this sort of "talk" when I have encountered it. My assumption has always been that the guys talking this way were simply a lower form of life and I had nothing in common with them.

[Since1982]

I do have some interesting memories of those early days in the 60's and 70's when discrimination was rampant in the US of A... When I was 23 and lived in Fort Lauderdale Florida, which has a very nice beach, there was a very public "war" for want of a better word right ON Lauderdale beach between the KKK and the city's black population. The NAACP planned a "swim in" on a Saturday afternoon. (In those days blacks were not allowed to swim at the public beach). The Klan showed up in full regalia and with automatic weapons to keep the blacks off the beach. To give you a very real idea of how things were then, NO police of any kind showed up, as most of the police back then were closet KKK anyway and were there in pointy hats. There were 11 blacks shot, luckily none died, but things escalated into a race war that lasted nearly 6 weeks and had the entire black section of town barricaded off with no entry unless you lived there or had business there. I did. I was the only white man allowed in there during that riot that wasn't law enforcement. I was the "Fish Man" back then. I went to Bahia Mar charter boat marina every afternoon when the boats came in and collected all the fish the boats took only pictures of and threw away and took them to the barricaded section and sold them for $5 per fish. The fish thrown away back then were species like Sailfish, Marlin, Cobia, Triggerfish, Jack Crevalle, Amberjacks, Porgies, Grunts, Margates and assorted Jacks. The smaller fish like grunts, Margates and Porgies were sweet and the bigger fish like Sailfish would feed a family so I got $5 for each fish no matter the size.

The first day of the riot when I showed up to go sell my fish the police stopped me and told me to go home. When the buyers found out the police had stopped me, they asked the police if the cops wanted the riots to get worse....if not, let OUR fish man in!! Things change...

Thank the powers that be, THAT kind of stuff no longer happens on a regular basis in the USA.

[Peter v]

Since1982, WOW!
Unbelievable.
Glad it's better now.

Some of the stories, wow, gee wizz, um gosh.

I think that whenever anybody does or says anything that is at a cost to others to place themselves above the other person, that is when problems start and things go terribly wrong.

Respecting people for who they are is a very good start, and if all goes well you will get that same respect and more back. Isn't the saying

"Love thy neighbour"?

May we be thankful that we (I hope) live in realative peace and are normally respected.

Peter v.

[Sarongman]

Back in .82, I was travelling by Greyhound Bus around the U.S. and was dropped off in the "centre" of Washington D.C. in the middle of the night. The next morning, when I went to the corner eatery to buy breakfast, I discovered I was in the black part of town. I was not served for a good 20 minutes, but stuck it out. Once they took my order, and discovered my Australian accent, all was well. later, in Tennessee, while telling a gunshop proprieter of this experience, he said " I wouldn't have gone in there without this" and plopped a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 magnum on the counter. With great concern for my wellbeing, he then tried to sell it to me! he was most likely also a member of the pointy hat crowd. Bishop Spong had the same upbringing as Skip and was chastised at 5 for calling a black man 'sir'. "You never call a ****** sir" is what his father said with a slap.
I wonder what these old style conservatives think of Condoleeza Rice as the Secretary of State?

[sapphire]

My experience was somewhat different.

My Mom was Puerto Rican. She had very fair skin and spoke impeccable English. She had a degree in chemistry and was an ex-Marine. She told me about her chilhood experiences where she suffered for her Spanish heritage.. [Her father fought in the Spanish/American War on the side of Spain]

By the time I came along, she was known as the smart, college educated veteran who did many positive things for the community. Without meaning to, she practically took over the local Girl Scouts. The black children in the community lived on the edge of town and had no transportation. Mom provided taxi service for them so they could go to meetings and participate with everone else.

Later we moved to another state and the house next door was owned by a lesbian couple. We thought nothiing of it.

Then when I left home I moved into a cute apartment in a new complex and found out that I was the only one not Jewish. The other renters were really kind to me and included me in their parties and holidays. I even learned a little bit of Yiddish

[earth_man]

Bishop Spong had the same upbringing as Skip and was chastised at 5 for calling a black man 'sir'. "You never call a ****** sir" is what his father said with a slap.
I wonder what these old style conservatives think of Condoleeza Rice as the Secretary of State?

I'm not an 'old style conservative' but I have the highest regard for Ms. Rice, Secretary of State.

[Sarongman]

So do I, I believe, from what I have seen of her, that any lesser mortal would come off very much second best in a debate= she is very intelligent and has a mind like a steel trap!

I didn't equate all southerners as being old style conservatives; what I meant was I wonder at the the ire of the old school who believed that black equalled inferior. Probably, hopefully, not many left.

[Bob]

Hey guys,

I have mixed feelings about this thread. Some of this discussion is positive. On the other hand, repeating profanity that one has heard in the past, no matter what the intent, only perpetuates the garbage. If you quote an inappropriate word, then you have just said that word yourself.

SkirtCafe has a policy against profanity, and it would be entirely within the guidelines of that policy to close this thread. I've edited out some profanity, but I'd rather people just avoided it altogether, express or implied. There are more respectful ways to make one's point, other than using starred-out words.

I'm also concerned that this thread does not turn into a South-bashing party. Southern and Northern culture are alot more intertwined --- and more similar --- than anyone would like to admit. No matter what the past sins of the South, I don't have much to say on that topic as long as things are as bad as they are here in the North.

[Bob]

Carl, I've been thinking a lot about what you said --- when people really tick us off, we can use unbiased terms of "endearment," such as moron, nitwit, clown, etc. I thought you put it brilliantly.