Are Skirts/Kilts Fem or Not? The Constructivist Answer

[skirttron]

The question of whether skirts or kilts or perhaps makeup, are fem or not has often been debated over a skinny skirtuccino or two in our cafe.
Surely the ultimate answer is that whether or not any of these things are fem depends only on whether the wearer, bveing honest with themselves, perceives them to be so.
All politicians, and everyone who has appeared on a TV show (excuse the pun) uses makeup - even the tough guys, and only they themselves know whether it makes them feel fem. So it is with skirts and kilts, although the unvoiced answers to all those questions would yield some surprising answers.
I actually could not care less whether anyone regards any of these things as fem or not.

[Steven]

Fem is in the eye of the beholder.

Steven

[nitrox]

Steven,

You're right on that, I don't think that anyone who has to wear a skinsuit at least 3 days a week thinks of (if a male) himself as poof or gay. It's something you have to get used to. I just walked from my car the other day to the house and my housemate was adding coolant to his car (I was carrying skates and my bag) and then he noticed me walking in a pair of spandex with sleeves tied up. He just asked me if I enjoyed skating and I told him "yeh, I do, heaps!" and he said, "oh, that's good" with a smile and so that was the end of that.

Only problem. Most people have it in their minds from decades of reinforcement that skirts and kilts or just skirts are for females. Nomatter how many times you put it through your mind, it's just always going to seem somewhat wrong and strange. That's why some will never get used to it and have to wear something that's unisex rather than a straight skirt; unless you live in a conservative place..

[matman]

Optimistic am I, more so than Ni(trox), perhaps.......

Yestday I was in Portland, Oregon and saw a full size guy in what I guess was an orange camo Utilikilt. After he walked past I overheard an early thirtysomething or late twentysomething gal say to her beau that the skirted guy was plain wierd. I had a couple reactions to this.

First, I was glad to see the casual kilt on the streets at a populated event. The event, mind you, was the finish line for the 204 mile bike ride from Seattle to Portland. The wearer did not appear to be a cyclist, but that's neither here nor there.

Second, I was disappointed with this gal's reaction. At first my thot was, wow, Portland can be conservative. (Politically you'd have a really hard time finding a more leftist leaning place than Portland, generally speadking.) But then I recalled that there were folks participating in the bicycle ride from all over the US and parts of Canada. I was mistaken to assume that the speaker of this comment was an Oregonian.

Third, and most importantly, think I, this lady's comment reminded me of one I'd made just a few short years ago when I saw a man in a kilt heading to a fomal fundraising dinner here in my small town in the middle of no where. I thot he looked way out of place. Well, perhaps it was the majic at work, that brings me to where I am now, wearing skirts out and about from time to time myself. All with the hope that others will see me, and perhaps eventually try it themselves.

So, there's the optimism, Ni man. My inital reaction was much like that of the woman I saw in Portland. But I've "seen the light" as they say. Maybe she will too, someday soon.

[Since1982]

As you can see in my World Series Of Poker pictures I posted, I am also a "full sized guy" but in the 5 days I was in Las Vegas I didn't get even ONE negative comment. I DID get at least 15 positive comments and some of the comments I most enjoy, like "Oh, I see, you're not wearing trousers, are you?". From people I was talking with about poker and they made mention of my all black outfit I was wearing part of the time. I said it was one of my favorite skirts and the WSOP black polo shirt and WSOP black hat made a perfect outfit at which time the "Oh I see" comments were made. Sitting on a rented electric scooter, they had just assumed I was wearing black trousers until I said it was one of my favorite skirts. Things change, Thank the powers that be. :):)

[me012247]

....are as female as pants are male

[Steven]

One thing,

What about all the people that say it takes balls to wear a skirt?

How fem can that be?

Steven

[wintermute]

Well said, Steven! That's a reply I commonly use..."It takes balls to wear a kilt".....It usually stumps the people who have caused me to use it....Just leaves them unable to come up with a further reply, so they stand there with grins on their faces....You can see the grey matter turning over in their heads as they try to come up with something.

In reply to the thread heading, I think anything is fair game for both sexes....It's just down to the acceptance on the whole by the public at large....As has been mentioned many times in the cafe, it is the tunnel vision of todays society that causes the problems. We are supposedly in the 21st century, but some still appear to cling to victorian values.
The youth cultures are really the ones to target, as they determine a lot of what is acceptable or not...They are the ones who keep designers & businesses selling product afloat & in the money.
If a new all male pop band appeared overnite who sported kilts / skirts as an image thing, all of a sudden there would be a whole new fashion regime on the streets & males in kilts / skirts would be common....But then the flip side would be that anyone wearing a kilt / skirt would be accused of supporting that band and tarred with the same brush!
I think the bottom line is to accept yourself with whatever you want to wear; As long as you can deal with those who have difficulty in dealing with you.

I don't think make-up is a bad thing for guys either - If it enhances and makes you feel good, do it......
How long before we actually see a male branded on-the-highstreet make-up range?

Remember - everything like clothes, jewelery & make-up is a gradual evolution of tribal identification from all those centuries ago....It's a way to express & identify.....So, as Madonna once said: "Express yourself"!:cheer:

[Bravehearts.us]

I think what me012247 was saying is that skirts and pants (equally) have no gender. I took what he wrote to be facetious. Correct me if I’m wrong me012247.
I would like to add that in today’s society the perception of the vast majority is that skirts represent females and pants represent males…thus the icons on the public restroom doors.
Lar

[Since1982]

I don't know, Lar, that might be changing faster than you think. I don't think anyone thought I was anything but an overweight man in a skirt in Las Vegas, not a crossdresser, not a female, not a weirdo, just another clothing choice for hot weather. I met, conversed with, and generally mingled with hundreds of people and got no mentions of the skirt other than positive ones.
The best one was from the 20 something gal tending the FullTiltPoker.com display just down the hall from the poker room (the poker room at the Rio is also the convention room, it's huge), and all she said was "What a good idea for a man in this heat"...Which I thought was extremely positive. :wave2: :scratchchin:

[skirttron]

I think what me012247 was saying is that skirts and pants (equally) have no gender. I took what he wrote to be facetious. Correct me if I’m wrong me012247.
I would like to add that in today’s society the perception of the vast majority is that skirts represent females and pants represent males…thus the icons on the public restroom doors.
Lar

A skirt and pants are shapes cut from textile rolls and stitched up; they have no inherent gender - only that which we attribute to them.

[supertaff]

I don't think make-up is a bad thing for guys either - If it enhances and makes you feel good, do it......
How long before we actually see a male branded on-the-highstreet make-up range?

It's just happened. Someone, I forget who, has brought out an eyeline aimed exclusively at men. it's in a manly package, but it's eyeliner.
Inspired by the look of Johnny Depp apparently...
It's called "Guyliner". Superdrug here in the UK are going to be selling it.

These people do a whole range by te look of it
http://www.4voo.com/cosmetics_eyes.htm

Personally I'm not into make up, but I'm not against it... Saying that I have my eye on a nice red lippy

ST

[Skirt Chaser]

All politicians, and everyone who has appeared on a TV show (excuse the pun) uses makeup - even the tough guys, and only they themselves know whether it makes them feel fem.

Yep, it is all about context, culture, fears, and names. Dresses are for women yet a caftan is a kind of dress. Same for kilts being a kind of skirt. Makeup is for women so we don't dare say athletes use makeup when they have blacking under the eye for glare and as intimidating war paint. How funny that a name change lets people ignore similarities and mentally categorize something as okay for men.

Quiet Mouse

[wintermute]

Wow! That was fast!!! I wonder how successful that range will be?