Skirt-wearing and Feelings

[AMM]

I may be committing a Sin against Masculinity by using the "F" word (as in "Real Men(TM) don't have Feelings"), but I'd like to bring up the topic of what we (OK, what *I*) feel when wearing a skirt and the associated gear.

I find that the kind of skirts &c that I want to wear tend to be what some folks might call "feminine": some have lace, or are a little frilly, they're all pretty full, some are *very* full (just the thing when you twirl while dancing), and are usually in bright colors. And I'm thinking of experimenting with some sheer layers, and with shirts that are sort of "puffy" (I'm not ready to call them blouses, though what sailors wear is called that.) And I might try a dress.

On the other hand, I don't go for trying to pass as a woman. To be honest, when I visit cross-dressing forums (fora?), the "girlish" look and mannerisms kind of repel me, as does the focus on makeup, high heels, and sheer lingerie that seems to be such a part of the CD scene. And, despite my PC principles, I have to admit that when I meet cross-dressers (and transsexuals) in Real Life, it makes me very
uncomfortable.

It seems to me that I'm being at least inconsistent: why is my degree of "looking like a girl" OK, but theirs is not? (Or: not threatening vs. threatening.) And am I just kidding myself when I assert that I don't have gender issues?

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else here sometimes finds himself feeling uncertain about his skirt-wearing. Or am I the only neurotic here?

-- AMM

[r1g0r]

you're not alone.

i won't pretend to speak for everybody here, but i know that i sometimes have the odd moment of "what the HELL am i doing here?".

first off: my wife supports what i like to do, but can't handle the social pressure from anonymous strangers. therefore, i only dress when i won't make her uncomfortable.

this means that i wear what i want when i'm on my own, or (strangely) around her family. they are quietly accepting, except for the occasional joke. NBFD.

my usual attire includes skirts, feminine boots/shoes, hose of some sort, limited cosmetics, and painted acrylic nails.

i am quite comfortable in this attire in most public places, but admit to being ready to "go on the offensive" if provoked.

my employer is prohibitted by law/union from giving me ANY grief regarding my appearance/lifestyle. it is not a workplace issue.

all this said, i still find myself wondering about my sartorial needs and desires. WHY am i pushing these limits?

i don't know if i'll ever have the real answer to my own question.

r1g0r (ankle length denim skirt & grey flannel shirt)

[TheBattler]

Hi AMM, I know how you feel as I have some of the same issues. I sometime wonder why I do not push my bondaries as I am now confortable in a skirt but for some reason I am not all that facinated with makeup as I once was. It seams I have found a balance in life and there is no longer a need to go any further. Anyone I have sent you a PM of a site that may interest you as the site with Gender issue and it has a different slant on cross dressing (ie it is not about the clothes but about the people).

Alan

[Monty]

rrrrg, take 2, I just lost this whole spiel cause explorer crashed, anyway

Dont worry, your not alone, I have often questioned my interest in mugs and often wondered if I am interested enough to put up with all the headaches of pushing social norms.

But in general this can be explained by whats known as Drive Reduction Theory. In simple terms it means basically that we have a drive to undertake certain behaviours such as eating, sleeping, novelty...etc. The drive to undetake these behaviours slowly builds (debateably up to a point for some behaviours) untill we feel a pressing need to undertake these behaviours. Then having undertaken these behaviours the drive factor is reduced untill it again builds such that we feel pressed to undertake it. In our case to undertake these so called "effeminate" behaviour. However our CD/TV cousins have a much larger capacity for this drive and thus would not feel the drive to be satisfied by merely wearing a skirt in a manly way. And this is why we question our behaviour as having recently undertaken mug wearing and or "effeminate" behaviour especially when this pushes our own personal boundaries our drive towards it is severely reduced and thus no longer feeling this drive we question why we undertook the behaviour.

Though this is a very simple way of looking at the point, and does not take into account various logical/comfort/gender/sexual factors that influence our decisions. It is also important to note that we may find our CD/TV cousins to threaten our legitimacy as skirt wearing men. And further that they threaten our masculinity, as we would find it uncomfortable to assume the same social paradigm that these clothes auto-feminize the wearer something which we are not trying to achieve.

I know that was all very academic, but its what i do

Put simply, do what makes you happy, just because social norms makes it out to be odd doesn't mean it should be. If you were female you wouldn't think twice about skirt wearing.

[Charlie]

Put simply, do what makes you happy, just because social norms makes it out to be odd doesn't mean it should be. If you were female you wouldn't think twice about skirt wearing.

..... or trouser wearing.

Charlie

[cessna152towser]

You could say I came into this by accident as until just over 3 years ago the only time I ever wore a MUG was a tartan kilt for Scottish Country dancing or a special event such as a wedding. Then the local kilt shop had a mannequin in their window in a black kilt and my wife thought I would look good in it so she bought me a heavyweight black kilt in traditional Scottish style for my Christmas. I thought I might only wear it to the occasional funeral but a few weeks later I sustained a leg injury and couldn't get trousers on. It was relatively easy to put on a wrap round kilt and buckle it up so I teamed the black kilt with the Argyle jacket, white shirt, black tie, black rugby socks and shoes and went into work. The kilt was so well accepted by colleagues and public, and so comfortable, that after my leg had healed I continued to wear it to the office once or twice per week. Finding that the black kilt was getting an excessive amount of wear, now also being worn casually, I then bought more kilts and recently pushed the boundaries away from my traditional Scottish kilt by buying the black goth kilt made by Mercy Clothing which is a more skirt like garment having fewer pleats, being made of lightweight polyester, and being slightly longer than a Scottish kilt. I now own six kilts and seven trousers. Many years ago I lost my long term girlfriend to the affections of a transexual so even though I eventually met and married a sincere and loving wife, I have always been particularly homophobic and uneasy about transexuals so some will see my choice of wearing MUG's for everyday wear as a surprising development. I see my choice to wear comfortable clothing as a statement for fashion freedom and nothing to do with sexuality. When my wife and I first married 22 years ago she always wore skirts and dresses and I always wore trousers. Fashions change, and now she always wears trousers and I wear kilts as often as I wear trousers. Most women wear trousers in the 21st century and while we do still see a few women wearing skirts, the day will soon come when there will be more men than women out there wearing skirt-like garments.

[ChrisM]

Yes indeed. Hello AMM. I have not yet read the other replies, as I didn't want my reply to be coloured by those other comments.

As I read your post I was strongly struck by our agreement. I feel the same way. Oh, I shy away from twirly skirts, because they are not socially acceptable, but I love lacy slips, and have a few blouses.

And yet, I too am 'repelled' by the CDs and their scene. (I'm sorry to be so blunt, I am attempting honesty as vice politeness.)

So I wanted to make a quick post to tell you that your are not alone, and to thank you for speaking up. Indeed, we may be more common that we had thought.

And now I shall go read what my 'brothers' have to say....

Chris

[me012247]

I feel much like you, ChrisM and I can also understand very much AMM.
Like you, I love to wear slips under my kilts/skirts and sometimes hose too however, I couldn't picture myself in wig and makeup. Actually, I don't want to mimic a woman and I don't want to look like..behave like..and be like a woman. All I want is to wear what I LIKE to wear.
I don't care if it is "social acceptable". As I said earlier, women fought for their fashion freedom decades ago. It didn't just happen. They had a tough time to get what we all see today on the streets and in fashion.
It is time we guys do the same; fight for what we want to wear...and if you like to wear wigs and makeup, that it fine with me too.

[MtnBiker]

Same here. That CD stuff is disturbing and somewhat repulsive to me. But so is eating beef. Not gonna say it's bad or anything, and surely if they like it then more power to them. But not for me. I can't figure all this out, my feelings etc. i think I might try to get an appt with a therapist I used to see (for stress) and see if she can help me figure it all out.

[Since1982]

I used to eat beef, I used to get constipated too. When I stopped eating beef, Viola! I stopped getting constipated. I used to wear trousers, I used to get cut in half vertically. When I stopped wearing trousers, I stopped getting any uncomfort from them. I don't work so I don't have any constraints from whatever kind of work that people do that forces them to wear trousers for safety. I'm not interested in looking like a fat woman, I have enough problems with being a fat man. (I've lost 60 pounds in the last 2 months on a diet of my own design with tons of vitamins) Less than 1,000 calories a day. So, hopefully the days of being morbidly obese may be over.~pray~ I have long hair, but I've had that off and on since I was born. Having known the wonderful feel of unbifurcated clothing when a child and having spent probably half my life in trousers, I wear skirts now because they are far more comfortable to me.

I don't have any problems with CD's or TV's or TS's, I just don't want to BE one. Except for the skirt or tunic I wear I look completely male and I like it that way. I wear slips, they make the inside of twill or denim skirts more comfortable. What is on the edge of them is no ones business as it will be well inside the skirt and if anyone sees it he/she was looking where he/she shouldn't have been looking. I buy a comfortable slip, I'm not going to cut the bottom edge off because it has lace or ruffles. I don't think that makes me any less masculine because once I put an article of clothing on it's no longer "Women's wear" but becomes "Men's wear" because a man is wearing it. :ninjajig:

[CharlesG]

(I've lost 60 pounds in the last 2 months on a diet of my own design with tons of vitamins) Less than 1,000 calories a day. So, hopefully the days of being morbidly obese may be over.~pray~

GREAT Skip! Glad to hear you found an eating lifestyle you can deal with. Stick with it man! Maybe you won't need to do the surgery thing after all?

[Departed Member]

Just a thought!

Do (women's) slips have a chunk of lace on the bottom to 'weight them down', or is it just for aesthetic reasons? I seem to remember my mother adding a couple of halfpennies into the hem of ones she made herself (no added lace, though!).

There do still seem to be plenty of 'plain' slips about, though, which could easily be described by that awkward word, "unisex". Do I take it these would be regarded as 'unacceptable' by the CD/TV brigade? It just seems to be a sensible option to add a slip, especially if you're going to 'avoid' wearing knickers under your Kilt, bearing in mind the likely (dry)cleaning costs of Kilts.

[Charlie]

Boy, I've led a sheltered life. The only CDs or TVs I've knowingly met are the electronic variety. As for gays, well I once saw a couple of guys holding hands, and found out that someone I had dealings with was gay, but that was only after he'd left the area.

I've often wondered how I'll react or feel if I ever encounter another man in a skirt. I've seen men in full Scottish regalia, but somehow that's different

Charlie

[cessna152towser]

I've always thought women wore lace-edging on their slips purely to titillate us guys by showing a flash of lace. I wouldn't think the lace would add significant weight. I made for myself a man's plain cotton waist slip by sewing a jockey briefs waistband onto the lower part of an old plain white tee-shirt. I made this some time ago then had second thoughts about actually wearing it with my kilts as I thought wearing a slip which would become visible when the wind catches the kilt was perhaps too fem, but I've kept it in my clothes cupboard for possible future wear. It would certainly come in handy if I started wearing a denim kilt or skirt at some time in the future.

[Since1982]

I don't think so, any more than women have lace panties or lace bras or lace in various places on their trousers or dresses or nighties. I like cotton slips because the nylon or silk or polyester ones tend to get hot and stick to legs in non-windy weather. I like them to be about an inch or a bit more shorter than whatever skirt I'm wearing is. Most of my shorter(high knee or higher) slips are microfiber and have no lace on them anywhere. I wear those with my converted denim or khaki shorts to skirts. Only the cotton longer ones have a lace edge at the bottom. I have a few that have a lace edge that can be "snipped" off in sections to make it shorter. I like it the length it is so I haven't shortened it. Anyone who is looking to see if I'm wearing a slip needs his/her nose shortened. :ninjajig: