How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[LiuBang]

I'd rather have an outfit that is unusual but looks intentional and coherent, vs a haphazard combination of things from men's and woman's fashion design. If you pair skirts with menswear upper garments, you'll get the latter.

Disagree! I met a young woman on the train. She was wearing a unisex, fitted graphic T-shirt on top and an A-line, knee-length skirt on the bottom. It worked beautifully!

[yardstick]

There have been lots of valid points made within this thread which is intended to find a way forward for newbies to join us and not as a rulebook for seasoned freestyle skirters who have already conquered their fear so should do as they feel.

OK, now for my take. To normalize skirts for men, wear skirts that match the following criteria:

0. No miniskirts. Must be at least knee length.
1. Solid, muted colors. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.
2. Symmetric, unadorned hemline
3. No slits (except for a short one at the back)
4. Thick enough to be opaque
5. Goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt.
6. Bonus if it has belt loops that can fit a man's belt
7. Bonus if it's twill, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets
8. Wear skirt with a fitted unisex Tee/polo shirt and male/unisex shoes.
9. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing skirt
10. Make sure skirt is only "femme" thing about your entire outfit

This is exactly what I do when I wear skirts. And it works! Every stranger still calls me "sir" without hesitation. Even my friend didn't notice I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him.

Face it: men would find wearing a no-frills, calf-length tan twill skirt with a guy's polo shirt, unisex sneakers, and zero cosmetics so much more doable than wearing a miniskirt with fishnet tights and high heels.

For those newbies conscious of their appearance there are some very good points here which should reduce the chance of being called out in the street by ignorant onlookers and more importantly give someone the confidence to leave the house which is what its all about if the look is every to become normalised.

Basically, substituting a "plain skirt" for "shorts".
The more a skirt resembles a pair of shorts, the less likely anyone would notice.
Thus, the wearer would "blend in" in most any given situation.
The only "change" in appearance would be a skirt for shorts.
I slightly disagree with point 9 as I wear ear studs 100% of the time.

This is exactly where I am atm including the earrings as they became accepted decades ago and is a vital stepping stone to the next stage. If a newbie was to go too fast too soon they could become overwhelmed and not wear a skirt again which is the most important point to avoid.

I even would add some points:
11. No dress
12. No tights or pantyhose
13. No high heels or knee high boots

I would disagree with 12 as some people need to wear compression hosiery and I'm seeing more men wear this openly these days rather than hiding it under Jeans (which is rather uncomfortable). Also, on colder days if the tights match the colour of the skirt it can help make things less noticable which is always useful for a beginner.

The most important thing of all to reduce the barrier to entry is to simply be out there in general life wearing a skirt for others to see.

[Grok]

At the start, I actually stood with a mirror and experimented with adding and subtracting elements to see how feminine I was prepared to go.

Yes. Experimenting with different items, until you see a combination that looks right. Perhaps experimenting with different items from both sides of the aisle.

A process lacking sophisticated analysis. But may be fruitful. After looking at the robehickman articles, I put on my favorite skirt (a Macabi) and stood in front of a mirror. The rig-if unintentionally-fit within the guidelines.

[Grok]

I'd rather have an outfit that is unusual but looks intentional and coherent, vs a haphazard combination of things from men's and woman's fashion design. If you pair skirts with menswear upper garments, you'll get the latter.

Disagree! I met a young woman on the train. She was wearing a unisex, fitted graphic T-shirt on top and an A-line, knee-length skirt on the bottom. It worked beautifully!

I have worn A-lines with shirts from the male side of the aisle. I think this works because the A-lines are angular rather than rounded, with straight lines instead of curvy lines.

The young woman may have experimented with different garments in front of a mirror, until she found a combination that looked right on her.

[Grok]

Did wonder about halfway house rigs. Last one I saw mentioned was a skirt like thing worn over shorts. Another was "mock shorts" sold by a company that went out of business. At this point, I don't think such rigs will gain traction.

[Faldaguy]

How about we drop the word "RULES" a notch to "Guidelines" This may make it easier for newbies to enter the MIS's world -- BUT:

Since A.I. seems to be 'The Answer" today, here is a quick list when it comes to rules about fashion!

Fashion is widely regarded as a form of art and self-expression, meaning the "rules" are subjective and often meant to be broken.

Here are some of the most well-said and famous lines & iconic quotes about fashion having no rules:

The only rule in personal style is that there are no rules." — Cleveland.com

"Fashion should be a form of escapism, and not a form of imprisonment." — Alexander McQueen

"Fashion has no rules. It's as simple as if YOU like it, wear it!" — Facebook.com/popsyclothing"

Style is knowing who you are, what you want to say, and not giving a damn." — Firstlook.fashion"

It's a new era in fashion – there are no rules. It's all about the individual and personal style." — Firstlook.fashion"

In fashion, there are no rules, just influences." — Connor MillerQuotes on Self-Expression and Individuality"

Fashion you can buy, but style you possess... It's about self-expression and, above all, attitude." — Iris Apfel"

Don't make fashion own you, but you decide what you are..." — Gianni Versace"

Style is a way to say who you are without having to speak." — Rachel Zoe"

Go against the idea that you need fashion rules. Do something that belongs to you." — Victoria Beckham"

When you don't dress like everybody else, you don't have to think like everybody else." — Iris Apfel

[GerdG]

I think it is most individual, what we find optimal, acceptable, or impossible. But as I said earlier, the 10-point list of LiuBang is basically what I can agree with, and now, Yaun has added three more points:

0. No miniskirts. Must be at least knee length.
1. Solid, muted colors. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.
2. Symmetric, unadorned hemline
3. No slits (except for a short one at the back)
4. Thick enough to be opaque
5. Goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt.
6. Bonus if it has belt loops that can fit a man's belt
7. Bonus if it's twill, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets
8. Wear skirt with a fitted unisex Tee/polo shirt and male/unisex shoes.
9. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing skirt
10. Make sure skirt is only "femme" thing about your entire outfit

11. No dress
12. No tights or pantyhose
13. No high heels or knee high boots

So, based upon them, how would my list actually be?

1. No pencil or otherwise restricting skirts. Moderate A-line or wrap-around skirts would fit most men. Length (reflecting today’s women’s fashion with a bit longer skirts), from just covering the knees to 2-3 inches above them

2. Solid, muted colours. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.

3. Symmetric, unadorned hemline

4. No slits

5. Bonus if the skirt has belt loops that can fit a man's belt

6. The fabric must be thick enough to be opaque. Bonus if it's twill, denim or the like, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets

7. A skirt goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt

8. Tights or pantyhose might be acceptable

9. Male or unisex shoes, i.e. no high heels

10. Some knee-high boots might be acceptable

11. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing a skirt. This might also include bracelets and necklaces

12. Preferably refrain from a 'girly' haircut

13. No dress

Conclusion
Your skirt (perhaps complemented by tights or pantyhose and a discreet bracelet or necklace) should be the only "femme" element of your entire outfit and overall appearance.

[GerdG]

To illustrate what I mean:

[STEVIE]

And for all those words of wisdom, the cause of fashion freedom for men has advanced by zilch, zero and nothing at all.
Some pretty pictures at least.
Steve.

[robehickman]

I'd rather have an outfit that is unusual but looks intentional and coherent, vs a haphazard combination of things from men's and woman's fashion design. If you pair skirts with menswear upper garments, you'll get the latter.

Disagree! I met a young woman on the train. She was wearing a unisex, fitted graphic T-shirt on top and an A-line, knee-length skirt on the bottom. It worked beautifully!

What works on women should not be used as a basis for what works on men, because the body shapes are very different. As I have already said, a garment will drape over and take the form of the body wearing it, especially one in a fabric with as much drape as jersey knit. We really need to stop directly copying woman's fashion.

To illustrate what I mean:

All of these examples follow the rules outlined in my article. Particularly notice that the skirts are being worn at or close to the natural waist. The top and bottom parts of the outfits mostly follow a 1:1 proportional ratio.

The second image has an unnaturally narrow waist.

At the start, I actually stood with a mirror and experimented with adding and subtracting elements to see how feminine I was prepared to go.

Yes. Experimenting with different items, until you see a combination that looks right. Perhaps experimenting with different items from both sides of the aisle.

A process lacking sophisticated analysis. But may be fruitful. After looking at the robehickman articles, I put on my favorite skirt (a Macabi) and stood in front of a mirror. The rig-if unintentionally-fit within the guidelines.

People will follow rules subconsciously, because there are many perceptual rules baked into human genetics. What I did with the article was to bring some of them into conscious awareness.

I think I violate all 14 points on a regular basis, even my working outfit violates at least 4 points on the full list....

However, I am a very independent guy, marching to my own drum beat, towards the tail end of my life, having an absolute ball of a time, wearing an entire wardrobe full of skirts of every shape, length, colour and material.

At a recent party, an actual New Your fashion designer, pulled me aside to tell me how much she liked my style. Considering I had made the clothes I was wearing, I was totally shocked and so pleased. I think the outfit broke 13 points, only complying with point 3. (The skirt did not have a slit, didn't need one since it had a petticoat)

I think I should butt out of this thread, since while I want to help any man wear a skirt (and I am actively doing this). My personal skirt wearing journey direction is in the opposite direction to the thrust of this thread. I apologise if I disappoint some members, but I have to be true to the small boy who lives inside me and was so disappointed at a young age.

What you are doing works because it looks intentional and is harmonious with your body, the fashion designer you mention surely recognised this.

As I've said, having an outfit that works wholistically is far more important than other factors. From what I have seen, trying to shoehorn skirts into existing male fashion design ideals basically never works, at a minimum you have to raise or lower the waistline to keep things proportionate.

Factors like colours having very different colour temperature, which clash badly, is another issue I see all the time.

I am quite conscious of the differences in body shape that can make women's garments look wrong on men; but women are also highly variable in shape, and I am constantly experimenting. I do violate the man-box rules, because I don't care whether I appear masculine at first glance.

I assure you that people will read you as male, basically irrespective of what you are wearing, based entirely on subconsciously reading your body shape.

[Yaun]

First on the "rules": there are no rules without exceptions. And then I see those rules as guidlines for "how to normalise skirts for men", which means, in my opinion, that any styles too far away from the current male norm are difficult. To be honest, it's rather comfortable to just pick to topmost jeans from the stack in the morning without thinking about it. Or just thinking about, if it should be a blue or a black one today. If choosing a skirt for today becomes equally simple, skirts may have a chance to become normal. Any decisions about the fancyness for today makes it more complicated. And the general man putting on clothes is lazy (I guess) and doesn't want to fiddle around half an hour to get everything right. Therefore available skirt styles must accomodate this behaviour. Of course there are/should be more fancy options for those who care, but I don't think that this will become the norm. Lazyness rules...

[jamie001]

Black, brown, navy blue, or gray? That is ridiculous! Don't keep men stuck in the same drab utilitarian look that has existed for the past 100 or more years. Jewelry, necklace, earrings, and nail polish will improve the look not detract from it.