How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[robehickman]

I'm going to stick with my statement that the reason many skirts, other than kilts, look weird on a male body is because we're not used to seeing men in skirts.

I strongly disagree with this, because the reasons they look weird are due to basic perceptual factors like the rule of thirds, and visual line extrapolation. Women typically have wide hips, a narrow waist, with smooth curves joining them. Men by comparison do not, and are generally much more angular on average.

The shape of skirts (and trousers / pants) designed for women are designed to accentuate, and work with female body curves. These ideas *can* work harmoniously with some men, predominantly very young and physically fit individuals, on most people and especially older men, it just looks weird because you have a garment exaggerating body features that the person does not have. It creates visual lines in silhouette that clash, or outfits that look awkwardly top-heavy.

https://robehickman.com/skirt-silhouettes-men

[Barleymower]

I'm going to stick with my statement that the reason many skirts, other than kilts, look weird on a male body is because we're not used to seeing men in skirts.

I strongly disagree with this, because the reasons they look weird are due to basic perceptual factors like the rule of thirds, and visual line extrapolation. Women typically have wide hips, a narrow waist, with smooth curves joining them. Men by comparison do not, and are generally much more angular on average.

The shape of skirts (and trousers / pants) designed for women are designed to accentuate, and work with female body curves. These ideas *can* work harmoniously with some men, predominantly very young and physically fit individuals, on most people and especially older men, it just looks weird because you have a garment exaggerating body features that the person does not have. It creates visual lines in silhouette that clash, or outfits that look awkwardly top-heavy.

https://robehickman.com/skirt-silhouettes-men

You are over thinking it. Skirts sit lower on a man that's all. Like the difference between high-waisted trousers and low slung trousers. Both are valid.

[Faldaguy]

I'm going to stick with my statement that the reason many skirts, other than kilts, look weird on a male body is because we're not used to seeing men in skirts.

I fully concur. This is as elemental as it gets. I'm old enough to remember when pants looked "weird" on women!

Yes, a skirted man may surprise or startle folks as it is an uncommon sight; but they are no more "weird" on men than women. Women's bodies may accentuate different aspects of the skirt, or the skirt may accentuate different aspects of our bodies -- but how is it we get so many compliments wearing skirts that were designed for women? If we discourage men from wearing "women's" skirts; insisting men must get theirs tailor made to look right -- you may as well write off MIS altogether.

[LiuBang]

OK, now for my take. To normalize skirts for men, wear skirts that match the following criteria:

0. No miniskirts. Must be at least knee length.
1. Solid, muted colors. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.
2. Symmetric, unadorned hemline
3. No slits (except for a short one at the back)
4. Thick enough to be opaque
5. Goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt.
6. Bonus if it has belt loops that can fit a man's belt
7. Bonus if it's twill, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets
8. Wear skirt with a fitted unisex Tee/polo shirt and male/unisex shoes.
9. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing skirt
10. Make sure skirt is only "femme" thing about your entire outfit

This is exactly what I do when I wear skirts. And it works! Every stranger still calls me "sir" without hesitation. Even my friend didn't notice I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him.

Face it: men would find wearing a no-frills, calf-length tan twill skirt with a guy's polo shirt, unisex sneakers, and zero cosmetics so much more doable than wearing a miniskirt with fishnet tights and high heels.

[Grok]

I'm old enough to remember when pants looked "weird" on women!
Yes, a skirted man may surprise or startle folks as it is an uncommon sight; but they are no more "weird" on men than women.

During the 19th century, trousers on women were a novelty, and led to cognitive dissonance.

[TonautBrom]

I find the unalloyed contempt expressed by some for anyone choosing to wear less flamboyant skirts to be frankly insulting.

I am not sure whether you are referring to something I have posted. But as a member that often dresses in flamboyant skirts, I would like to say that all men should dress entity as they wish in whatever skirt they like. I apologise if I have said anything that is "unalloyed contempt" or inferred it.

Not you Mouse, you are the most inclusive and polite poster on here.

[Grok]

LiuBang described a design quite similar to one mentioned several times before. Knee length skirt, plain, rugged, in Mud colors. Useful pockets. We seem to always circle back to this concept, when discussing ways to promote MIS.

As I have said before, members are mavericks who dress to please themselves. Others, not so much'

[STEVIE]

As I have said before, members are mavericks who dress to please themselves. Others, not so much'

....or there are RULES and and there are pointless rules just setting up to be broken.
When it comes to MIS, breaking the rules starts the moment you wear one for the second time.
The rest is up to you, maybe messy, but oh so very satisfying.
Steve.

[Uncle Al]

OK, now for my take. To normalize skirts for men, wear skirts that match the following criteria:

0. No miniskirts. Must be at least knee length.
1. Solid, muted colors. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.
2. Symmetric, unadorned hemline
3. No slits (except for a short one at the back)
4. Thick enough to be opaque
5. Goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt.
6. Bonus if it has belt loops that can fit a man's belt
7. Bonus if it's twill, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets
8. Wear skirt with a fitted unisex Tee/polo shirt and male/unisex shoes.
9. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing skirt
10. Make sure skirt is only "femme" thing about your entire outfit

THIS is a very good list.
Basically, substituting a "plain skirt" for "shorts".
The more a skirt resembles a pair of shorts, the less likely anyone would notice.
Thus, the wearer would "blend in" in most any given situation.
The only "change" in appearance would be a skirt for shorts.
I slightly disagree with point 9 as I wear ear studs 100% of the time.
That would not be out of the ordinary. The viewer's eye, normally, is looking at
a person from the waist up, not down. I wouldn't stick to #10 as to what a person
chooses to wear under their clothes, is not open for discussion.

IMHO, for starters, substituting a skirt for shorts, especially in the summer heat,
is the best way to go. ( The KISS method. )

Uncle Al

[Barleymower]

THIS is a very good list.
Basically, substituting a "plain skirt" for "shorts".
The more a skirt resembles a pair of shorts, the less likely anyone would notice.
Thus, the wearer would "blend in" in most any given situation.
The only "change" in appearance would be a skirt for shorts.
I slightly disagree with point 9 as I wear ear studs 100% of the time.
That would not be out of the ordinary. The viewer's eye, normally, is looking at
a person from the waist up, not down. I wouldn't stick to #10 as to what a person
chooses to wear under their clothes, is not open for discussion.

IMHO, for starters, substituting a skirt for shorts, especially in the summer heat,
is the best way to go. ( The KISS method. )

Uncle Al

The list is a massive no from me. It is basically a manbox with plain skirts. No thanks I like a bit of colour in my life and some style options.
My list is very simple:
1. The same options as women.

I don't see any reason for options for women and options for men. But then that's what 200 years of brain washing will do.

If you are thinking this approach might get it over the line - it won't. They will still say you are wearing a women's skirt. The best approach is to look good and own it (partial Susie quote). Do that and you will be accepted. Looking good is a personal thing and what works for some, doesn't for others.
If skirts became mainstream, your average bloke might wear a denim skirt if pushed by his partner. He would probably take the same route to freedom that we all, mostly, have taken.

[robehickman]

The list is a massive no from me. It is basically a manbox with plain skirts. No thanks I like a bit of colour in my life and some style options.
My list is very simple:
1. The same options as women.

I don't see any reason for options for women and options for men. But then that's what 200 years of brain washing will do.

I am getting sick to death of saying the same thing over and over again, and people here seem to be completely and utterly blind, have never seen a woman before, have zero awareness of visual harmony, or have paid no attention to body shape. Male and female bodies are not the same shape! Clothing that works harmoniously with one or the other is simply not the same due to this. Yes there is *some* possibility for overlap.

Skirts in menswear WILL NOT be adopted insofar as the outfits people are putting together look like clown suits! The majority of people copy things that they think look cool / interesting, not like a practical joke.

Please, read the article I shared, and google 'rule of thirds in fashion', 'visual line in fashion', and 'fashion optical illusions'.

[Uncle Al]

The list is a massive no from me. It is basically a manbox with plain skirts.
No thanks I like a bit of colour in my life and some style options.
My list is very simple:
1. The same options as women.

I don't see any reason for options for women and options for men. But then that's what 200 years of brain washing will do.

If you are thinking this approach might get it over the line - it won't. They will still say you are wearing a women's skirt. The best approach is to look good and own it (partial Susie quote). Do that and you will be accepted. Looking good is a personal thing and what works for some, doesn't for others.

I understand but, you missed my main point:

IMHO, for starters, substituting a skirt for shorts, especially in the summer heat,
is the best way to go. ( The KISS method. )

The key word here is STARTERS

A guy may be comfortable wearing a kilt yet, in very high temperatures, a kilt IS hot.
The body can't cool off quickly. What's a person to do
Swap out the kilt for a plain skirt, similar to shorts, and wear a plaid shirt.
This changes the colorful bottom part, the kilt, up to a shirt - and moves the plain part,
solid color shirt, down to the bottom. This is great for "First Timers". They may feel
more comfort with the outfit looking like shorts yet, have a greater cooling of the lower
half of the body, with the skirt.

Once they (first timers) find no problems wearing a skirt, it will become second nature
to make this change. Kilt for Skirt. This is an example of a Baby Step, building self
confidence that wearing a skirt, instead of a kilt, can be done as a man.
(I know this from personal experience.)

Uncle Al

[Grok]

The key word here is STARTERS

Once they (first timers) find no problems wearing a skirt, it will become second nature
to make this change. Kilt for Skirt. This is an example of a Baby Step, building self
confidence that wearing a skirt, instead of a kilt, can be done as a man.

Yes, baby steps. In general, the people posting to this thread are beyond the baby steps, but react as though baby steps for others-for newbies-is a restriction being placed on them.

[Grok]

IMHO, for starters, substituting a skirt for shorts, especially in the summer heat,
is the best way to go. ( The KISS method. )

The body can't cool off quickly. What's a person to do
Swap out the kilt for a plain skirt, similar to shorts, and wear a plaid shirt.
This changes the colorful bottom part, the kilt, up to a shirt - and moves the plain part,
solid color shirt, down to the bottom. This is great for "First Timers". They may feel
more comfort with the outfit looking like shorts yet, have a greater cooling of the lower
half of the body, with the skirt.
Uncle Al

During the hottest days of the year, I have found that shorts are very effective at holding the heat in at the crotch. So, a man trying a skirt during the summer will gain at least one clear advantage-superior physical comfort.

Presumably this newbie won't be trying leggings during his initial forays, trying to beat the heat. He will likely wear socks. So there is the possibility of additional color in his rig, in the form of socks.

[robehickman]

0. No miniskirts. Must be at least knee length.
1. Solid, muted colors. Black, Navy Blue, Green, Tan, etc.
2. Symmetric, unadorned hemline
3. No slits (except for a short one at the back)
4. Thick enough to be opaque
5. Goes well with a unisex T-shirt/polo shirt. Bonus if you've seen a woman wear the skirt with a unisex T-shirt or polo shirt.
6. Bonus if it has belt loops that can fit a man's belt
7. Bonus if it's twill, has a zipper fly, snap brass button, and decent-sized pockets
8. Wear skirt with a fitted unisex Tee/polo shirt and male/unisex shoes.
9. Refrain from wearing any cosmetics/piercings while wearing skirt
10. Make sure skirt is only "femme" thing about your entire outfit

This is exactly what I do when I wear skirts. And it works! Every stranger still calls me "sir" without hesitation. Even my friend didn't notice I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him.

Face it: men would find wearing a no-frills, calf-length tan twill skirt with a guy's polo shirt, unisex sneakers, and zero cosmetics so much more doable than wearing a miniskirt with fishnet tights and high heels.

I mostly agree with this apart from points 0, 3, 8.

0: Mini skirts have been worn historically by warriors and look fine on men (especially young and physically fit people) if styled properly (cropped talk tops or camisoles pair well with them.

3: Slits can create a 'bifurcated' illusion and are common in historic male tunics. Medieval male tunics were between ankle and knee length, often slit up the front and back to enable horse riding. Slits look entirely normal in that context.

8: Skirts often look better proportionally if they are worn at the natural waist, at or slightly above the navel. It is then helpful to crop top garments to this length. The Scottish kilt outfit (highland dress) follows these rules, kilt jackets are cut shorter than regular suit jackets.

Otherwise you get a 'drop waist', which makes the illusion that the person has very short legs, and to my eye almost always looks weird. If you search 'drop waist looks weird', there are a lot of women who think drop waists look bad on them, so it is not just a male thing.

Having fitted, shaped, not 'boxy' top garments also creates more appealing visual lines.

I'd rather have an outfit that is unusual but looks intentional and coherent, vs a haphazard combination of things from men's and woman's fashion design. If you pair skirts with menswear upper garments, you'll get the latter.