How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[robehickman]

A big aspect of this, in my opinion, is that a lot of skirt shapes just objectively do not look harmonious with a male body.

IMHIO, the reason many skirts dont look harmonious with the male body is because you dont normally see men in any skirt other than a Kilt. If it were more common for men to wear skirts than you would find A-Line or Circle skits acceptable.

I don't agree with this as a blanket statement. An A-line silhouette is based on an extrapolation of the curve between the waist and the hips, Many women have a substantial difference in these two measurements inherently in their body, which means that the visual line of the body's silhouette is harmonious to that of the garment. Additionally, a lot of women have narrow shoulders, which gives a clean 'A shaped' visual line from the shoulder, through the hem of the skirt.

A line skirts can be harmonious on men, but the ideal flare angle of the skirt will almost always be less than for a woman, because the body does not have such a large difference in waist to hip measurement. On some men the hips are narrower than the waist (not just for people with a belly),

Men having wide shoulders on average has a tendency to make skirt based outfits look comically top-heavy, unless the volume of the skirt is balanced with the upper body.

Circle skirts on men, to me, almost always look weird. They add bulk in the hips. On a woman this often reads as an exaggeration of the female form, on a man it reads subconsciously as 'your body should not have bulk there'.

Bulking the hips on men was common in some eras historically, for example Tudor fashion, but was also paired with bulking of the shoulders, and other padded upper body garments that create a coherent silhouette. As men typically already have wide torsos to start with, this results in the whole person looking wide and short.

[Mouse]

I think part of the problem is that a man in a skirt has normally taken trouble to put his outfit together. If you take a look at a sample set of public, say a full tube carriage, you will be disappointed in the coordination of very many of them, even among the female subjects. So anybody that has put thought into their outfit, stands out, male or female.

[Grok]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I wore a(n original) Macabi in front of a mirror. This is basically a long A-line. The skirt fit the criteria of the robehickman articles fairly well. So, the right version of an A-line has considerable potential for MIS.

[Grok]

Godet described.

[Grok]

Members have occasionally mentioned dress styles that might be adapted for men. A few that I recall

1. Shirt dress.

2. T-shirt dress.

3. Coat dress.

4. Shift.

[robehickman]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I wore a(n original) Macabi in front of a mirror. This is basically a long A-line. The skirt fit the criteria of the robehickman articles fairly well. So, the right version of an A-line has considerable potential for MIS.

A-lines can work very well, as long as the shape of the garment is harmonious with the body of the person wearing it. Its common for garments designed for women to be shaped wrongly in the waist and hip area, leaving a lot of excess fabric around the hips when worn by a male body. A-line skirts can absolutely be designed for men, and you may be able to find woman's garments that work.

One needs to pay attention to the shape, proportions, and visual line formed by all garments in an outfit. I strongly advise trying a more diverse range of upper garments.

Members have occasionally mentioned dress styles that might be adapted for men. A few that I recall

1. Shirt dress.

2. T-shirt dress.

3. Coat dress.

4. Shift.

A lot of T-shirt dresses already on the market work perfectly well on men as long as you can find ones that fit. Need to take care the outfit styling doesn't read as a kurta, throbe or other religious / ethnic garment.

[sellek]

A little while ago a lady came up to me and asked why I was wearing a frock? I was wearing a knee length A line denim skirt and gave the usual explanation. A little while later she came up to me and said that actually it suited me and looked good. I am 5' 11'' tall, chest 38'', waist 31'' and hips 38'' and find I can wear a size 12 skirt with the waist at my actual waist line just above my navel. If I wear trousers the waist is generally several inches lower. To my mind and eye, skirts work for me if the waist sits well at my actual waist line just above my navel and then fits snugly around my hips, this is a different fit and feel to trousers.
Looking at TV, the ladies who wear skirts well are the ladies who present the weather, often a high waisted, elegant midi skirt. I get the impression that many women see this and think that they cannot emulate this look. To make a possibly contentious and offensive point; many ladies have a tummy rather than a waist and thus avoid skirts. A number of ladies I know wear leggings and tunic tops in the winter and then possibly a loose fitting dress in the summer but never seem to wear a skirt. And so for many women it seems that skirts are becoming an abnormal style of clothing.
Having made these points I am not sure I have a conclusion but maybe others will have a thought to make on this?

[Barleymower]

Having made these points I am not sure I have a conclusion but maybe others will have a thought to make on this?

I take the point about TV and add that a lot of American shows I see in netfilx dress the women in elegant dresses, especially if it's a drama. Not a trousered women in sight. They give the romantic impression that is how the world is but really the majority are in leggings / trousers. I wonder it they are reaforcing gender boundaries?

[Faldaguy]

I fail to understand the need for "conformity" to either what is deemed fashionable, or sexy/elegant/avant-garde or stylish. If we were discussing "normalizing" skirts for women -- we would have a boat-load of "body shaming" thrown at us. How is this any different? What one appreciates or feels looks good is exclusively personal, like art. Sure there are some socially guided pressures, but they are no more valid than any other "opinion". If you look at the changing trends in what was deemed fashionable or sexy by the decades, or even in different countries -- it is all over the map. Today's "trend" is nothing more than that. Let's stop hounding folks to "look a certain way" or buy the appropriate pleats, vents, godets, or gathers -- let's stop throwing DARTS!

[STEVIE]

I fail to understand the need for "conformity" to either what is deemed fashionable, or sexy/elegant/avant-garde or stylish.

For me "conformity" is so far in my rear view mirror that I need reminding what it actually looks like.
Let other guys see that I can suit myself so they can too and my work is done!
Steve.

[Jim]

One step to normalising skirts is writing about them in social media.

For example, I had a question about how to handle a detail in a dress I got recently. Three days ago, I posted the question in a Facebook beginners' sewing group. I got 267 hearts or thumbs up, and over 300 comments. There were very few "tranny", "needs help", or "a joke" type comments, greatly outweighed by supportive and helpful comments.

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[robehickman]

I fail to understand the need for "conformity" to either what is deemed fashionable, or sexy/elegant/avant-garde or stylish. If we were discussing "normalizing" skirts for women -- we would have a boat-load of "body shaming" thrown at us. How is this any different? What one appreciates or feels looks good is exclusively personal, like art. Sure there are some socially guided pressures, but they are no more valid than any other "opinion". If you look at the changing trends in what was deemed fashionable or sexy by the decades, or even in different countries -- it is all over the map. Today's "trend" is nothing more than that. Let's stop hounding folks to "look a certain way" or buy the appropriate pleats, vents, godets, or gathers -- let's stop throwing DARTS!

This whole paragraph is nonsense. The point is not body shaming, but to recognise that people's bodies are different, and not everything creates a visually harmonious shape on all people. Not all skirt types work on all women either, and there is a plethora of information available targeting women regarding 'how to dress for your body type' - just google that phrase.

Men's skirts will not see adoption until people can get beyond 'men directly copying woman's styles', because this just does not work in almost all cases. Male and female bodies are shaped very differently, and a man dressing literally as a woman would, will almost always look comical or like a joke. Men do this in theatre and drag performances, entirely because it looks funny, for entertainment value*.

Garments are designed to be proportionate assuming a given body shape, and things worn by a man would look a hell of a lot better if they were designed for a male body shape.

If one just pays attention to the innate shape of the body and work with instead of against it, as well as has a sense for how to pair colours, textures, and proportions, then it is straightforward to put together skirted outfits that look harmonious on men. Mouse's outfits for instance are very 'out there', but are internally coherent, and work with his body.

This is not just a matter of 'we are not used to seeing it'. Humans have innate perceptual preferences such as the rule of thirds and the golden ratio. Some things will always look weird.

There is objectively less that can be done with a male vs female body because women have more prominent curves. Women can put straight cut garments over their curves to hide them, or wear garments that are fitted to and /or extrapolate their body curves. Short of corsetry (which has limited effect on men due to less / differently distributed body fat), you can not create curves where there are none.

* Yes I am aware that theatre historically had men playing women due to sociopolitical reasons.

[mr seamstress]

I fail to understand the need for "conformity" to either what is deemed fashionable, or sexy/elegant/avant-garde or stylish. If we were discussing "normalizing" skirts for women -- we would have a boat-load of "body shaming" thrown at us. How is this any different? What one appreciates or feels looks good is exclusively personal, like art. Sure there are some socially guided pressures, but they are no more valid than any other "opinion". If you look at the changing trends in what was deemed fashionable or sexy by the decades, or even in different countries -- it is all over the map. Today's "trend" is nothing more than that. Let's stop hounding folks to "look a certain way" or buy the appropriate pleats, vents, godets, or gathers -- let's stop throwing DARTS!

I to would like know why other people think their opinion about my looks should matter? What I wear and I like the look from what I wear only matters to me. That's the way it should be for everyone. Unfortunately not every member here at skirtcafe agrees to that statement. I don't believe we need have certain curves to wear certain designs. There is those here would shame me for wearing a cupcake shirt, even though I have a pair of cupcakes, because of the side effects from the medicine I take. Not going to wear a binder and be ashamed for having a pair of cupcakes. For those who don't like my cupcakes can close their eyes.
Who has the right to say what an individual wears looks harmonious on them? Only that person has that right no one else unless they was ask. In doing so is body shaming and as you acknowledged is wrong. If this civil society was truly more civil.

[Grok]

For the foreseeable future, I think that the robehickman criteria will apply (if unintentionally) to any skirt that gains traction in the mainstream. This is a significant constraint. Personally, this excludes a number of styles that I like the look of.

I would remind people of this-members are mavericks who dress to please themselves. We are willing to experiment with clothing. Others, not so much.

[sellek]

Mirror mirror on the wall;
For me, the test of whether my clothes are OK is to look at myself in a full length mirror and ask myself if I feel happy, confident and relaxed with my appearance? What factors are at work in my head to guide my mirror/confidence test is hard to say? As was pointed out a few posts ago, there are many on-line sites giving women guidance on how to look good with their body shape, I can only assume there are so many sites because there are many women seeking guidance on how to feel confident and relaxed with their clothing choices.

Body shape seems to have changed over the years. When Dior introduced the 'New Look' for women in the 40s/50s the average woman had a waist size of 28'' this has increased so that currently the average women has a waist size of 34''. Presumably clothing styles have had to adapt to this change.

This thread is about normalising skirts for men and so to focus on that subject. My experience is that living in North Devon, in the summer time, there is very much a holiday/beach theme to clothing and so I did not find if too tricky to swap my denim shorts for a denim skirt that fitted and looked OK. Indeed I gather there were some people locally who had not even realised I was wearing a denim skirt rather than denim shorts! Once I had made a start, it was then a matter of applying my mirror/confidence test to move on a little.