How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[FLbreezy]

To normalize skirts for men...

For a start, stop using the word skirt. The word 'kilt' is commonly accepted by most people to signify a skirt that it is socially acceptable for a man to wear.

It's a thorny subject here, but you're not wrong!

I don't have any qualms about calling a skirt a skirt, but many will call any skirt worn by a man a kilt, and I'm ok with that, even if it offends a kilt purist.

My wife will use the words interchangeably, even when I'm wearing a very obviously female-intended garment. Whatever works, it's fine with me.

[robehickman]

For a start, stop using the word skirt. The word 'kilt' is commonly accepted by most people to signify a skirt that it is socially acceptable for a man to wear. I have seen the Greek Fustanelli described as a Greek kilt.

People have been arguing about names and what to call things for years, and I do not see this line of discussion as having value. There are many other factors, a few of which I mentioned in the op, that I believe would have a much bigger impact.

The term 'skirt' is already widely used in the garment industry for 'any garment or part of a garment that covers the legs with a single tube or wrap'. Great coats, trench coats, frock coats, dressing gowns, and numerous other garments already extant within menswear, have skirts. If you buy a pattern for one of these garments, the pattern pieces for the skirt, will be labelled 'skirt'.

I also think that genericising the term 'kilt' is culturally disrespectful, because the kilt is well defined type of skirt with deep roots in Scottish culture. The scope for skirted garments that look good on men is more diverse than the design of the kilt.

I do feel that a serious men's skirts movement should actively distance itself from 'crossdresser' associations. Men directly adopting female styles / wearing woman's clothing, typically looks proportionally broken due to differences in body shape. The goal should be skirt outfits that look good on men, and there are numerous sources for this within existing western menswear, like the previously mentioned trench coat.

So I am happy to help in any capacity. Where do you want to start. Should we meet up somewhere to plan? I am willing to travel.

I'm not interested in leading or figure-heading this movement as I already have way too much work as it is. The points I made are roadblocks that I observed, which nobody / almost nobody, is working to address (generally, not with respect to this forum), and other people should take ownership of these problems. I think you're already in a good position to start taking some of that independently, you know how to build outfits that work

The goal needs to be to create a social movement that is self sustaining, not just a hyper-niche thing.

[yardstick]

There are some really good ideas listed here, some of which are already being implemented.

The most important factor in trying to normalise skirts for men is simply to be out there, what you are actually wearing really comes as a secondary point which follows on after being seen, even a tartan kilt seen on the street is a massive help to the movement as it brings a certain amount of familiarity to the public seeing skirted males oh and above all smile and be happy.

Someone who has never worn a skirt before is more likely to copy someone they have seen in a utility kilt as their brain wouldn't have to process the sociological gender divide barrier in the initial stages.
The next stage (where I'm currently combatting) involves moving away from all those annoying pleats and here is where we need to look to the alternative outfitters rather than mainstream chains at present. For this i'm thinking of emp clothing with something like this https://www.emp.co.uk/p/fear-is-over-kilt/456655.html where the initial heading is a kilt but once you open up the link it confesses to be a wrap midi skirt so gives the wearer the initial appearance of a kilt with a behaviour similar to a skirt so perfect for someone gaining confidence, at £32 its in the price bracket that means somone might take a chance and try one as I believe that often price stops a number of men from trying this in case they don't like it.
The third stage is of course the ubiquitous denim skirt which if you get the length & fit right can work really well but at this point the wearer needs to find their own style of skirt.
After this is really freestyling, nothing wrong with that at all and I take my hat off to those confident enough to do so but in my opinion it is the above three that are most likely to say to the man in the street "I might try that".

[Seb]

For this i'm thinking of emp clothing with something like this https://www.emp.co.uk/p/fear-is-over-kilt/456655.html where the initial heading is a kilt but once you open up the link it confesses to be a wrap midi skirt so gives the wearer the initial appearance of a kilt with a behaviour similar to a skirt so perfect for someone gaining confidence, at £32 its in the price bracket that means somone might take a chance and try one as I believe that often price stops a number of men from trying this in case they don't like it.

I've got one of those in red, I think it was the first I took out in public(well I did wear a dress once before for a weekend at a convention, but not really counting that). Got it on a sale for half price though, so even better. But I do feel it draws more attention than a black skirt, green probably draws less than the red, but I have yet to see that one go on sale.
I think the important part is getting out there and building your confidence.

[Wiggy]

Stu will perhaps remember the Topman venture into kilt like skirts for men that ended up on the sale rail very quickly indeed. ASOS had a few unisex designs available last year but they have gradually dwindled away.

I had one of the Topman skirts, a grey wrap around creation, there was a matching shirt to go with it.
They also did some bright coloured combinations which unfortunately were never in my size.

I still have one of the H&M "Mens Skirts" from the same era.

It's a shame one of the mainstream highstreet stores don't try again now attitudes have changed.

[robehickman]

The next stage (where I'm currently combatting) involves moving away from all those annoying pleats and here is where we need to look to the alternative outfitters rather than mainstream chains at present. For this i'm thinking of emp clothing with something like this https://www.emp.co.uk/p/fear-is-over-kilt/456655.html where the initial heading is a kilt but once you open up the link it confesses to be a wrap midi skirt so gives the wearer the initial appearance of a kilt with a behaviour similar to a skirt so perfect for someone gaining confidence, at £32 its in the price bracket that means somone might take a chance and try one as I believe that often price stops a number of men from trying this in case they don't like it.

That looks good to me. It would be valuable if the community were to create a curated sticky thread called something like 'where to get skirts that work for men', with links to this and any other garments that are known to be designed for, or work on a male figure (like skirtcraft).

I also agree that the kilt is too limiting to be the sole common male skirt. A similar concept that's less maintinance heavy is a slight A-line with pleats or godets in the side seams - that creates the same silhouette as a kilt, avoids being constraining to range of movement, but is much simpler to maintain.

There is a guy in a red long flowy skirt in the following contra dance video, and his outfit works well to my eye.

https://youtu.be/Ai8j3QpGDWM?si=of0BU-ani_Ft3ewH&t=369

Another thought, creating a manifesto of ideas for 'how to help other men try skirts and grow the movement' would probably be worthwhile.

[Grok]

Compared to the timeline for women-going the opposite way-we may have been able to skip a few decades of stagnation. Because of kilting, one of the only exceptions to Trousers Tyranny. So we can already point at a skirt-like garment that it is socially acceptable as mens wear.

Now is the time to try other designs.

[STEVIE]

Ah so all is well .
Here is my non traditional pinafore dress kilt.
It's called a kilt so I can't possibly be a sissy in a skirt or a woman's dress.

20250315_140050 Copy.jpg

I also think that genericising the term 'kilt' is culturally disrespectful, because the kilt is well defined type of skirt with deep roots in Scottish culture. The scope for skirted garments that look good on men is more diverse than the design of the kilt.

RH.
I congratulate you on this observation, perhaps the most logical entry in this whole thread.
For anyone who missed it first time round, this is the site of my Sunday school and now a pub.
In 1963, this was the place where I discovered that the posh boys were allowed to wear skirts.
Except they called them Kilts and even had their very own special underwear.
Steve.

[Grok]

There are a few options that can be sewn without patterns:

In the sewing section, there are a couple of threads for converting jeans into a skirt. This can be done with mens' jeans.

Also in the sewing, I described how I made a very simple caftan.

These are projects that can be done without patterns. These can be done with meager sewing skills (sewn by hand), and little money.

[yardstick]

For this i'm thinking of emp clothing with something like this https://www.emp.co.uk/p/fear-is-over-kilt/456655.html where the initial heading is a kilt but once you open up the link it confesses to be a wrap midi skirt so gives the wearer the initial appearance of a kilt with a behaviour similar to a skirt so perfect for someone gaining confidence, at £32 its in the price bracket that means somone might take a chance and try one as I believe that often price stops a number of men from trying this in case they don't like it.

I've got one of those in red, I think it was the first I took out in public(well I did wear a dress once before for a weekend at a convention, but not really counting that). Got it on a sale for half price though, so even better. But I do feel it draws more attention than a black skirt, green probably draws less than the red, but I have yet to see that one go on sale.
I think the important part is getting out there and building your confidence.

I can understand that with the red as apart from specialist tartan kilts it is fairly rare for men to wear red on their lower half so would attract more attention for the colour alone so I bought the green one as the colour should seem more natural and attract less attention but I will report back on that once i have worn it out.

[Grok]

Most of my latex skirt patterns are circle skirts, where length and waist size are the only metrics required.

The basic skirt is a circle of cloth, with a hole in the middle for the waist. A sort of cloth dough nut.

I am thinking that that you could sew on patch pockets, and suspenders (braces).

Perhaps do this without having to use a pattern. Hand sewn, probably, if you aren't looking for something fancy.

[robehickman]

Most of my latex skirt patterns are circle skirts, where length and waist size are the only metrics required.

The basic skirt is a circle of cloth, with a hole in the middle for the waist. A sort of cloth dough nut.

I am thinking that that you could sew on patch pockets, and suspenders (braces).

Perhaps do this without having to use a pattern. Hand sewn, probably, if you aren't looking for something fancy.

Skirts can be either based on a rectangle of fabric, a circle of fabric, circle segments, or a hybrid where you have a rectangle base, with circle segments called 'godets' inserted. You can actually also add godets to circle skirts but it isn't very common. Rectangle skirts often increase range of movement by gathering or pleating fabric.

There is a discussion of different skirt types in my article about skirts for contra dance:

https://robehickman.com/gender-neutral-skirts-contra

Personally, I don't find most circle skirts or gathered skirts flattering to a male body. Both of these add bulk to the hips and tend to give a 'feminine' silhouette. The rufflyness they create also draws the eye quite strongly. A lot of men have torsos that are wide and 'box' shaped without much curves. Adding bulk to the hips then makes the whole person look even wider, often making the person look short and 'dumpy'.

Obviously that depends on the proportions of an individual person, and also the design of the skirt, and the fabric it is made of. Fabrics with more drape will add less bulk. There can also be issues that arise from curves in a skirt conflicting with the straight lines of many male torsos.

Bulked hips on men can work if paired with big puffy sleeves that bulk the shoulders, Tudor fashion did that a lot.

Compared to the timeline for women-going the opposite way-we may have been able to skip a few decades of stagnation. Because of kilting, one of the only exceptions to Trousers Tyranny. So we can already point at a skirt-like garment that it is socially acceptable as mens wear.

Now is the time to try other designs.

I agree with this, and would strongly encourage experimentation with other styles, but also with the proportions of one's entire outfit. The waistline doesn't have to always be in the same place. Necklines also impact proportions and are rarely experimented with in mens fashion. Women often pair a camisole with short skirts as the top having a lower neckline reduces the upper garment's apparent visual size, making it balance better with a shorter skirt. The same effect can be created with a tank top.

[STEVIE]

To the wider world, all these fine words, theories and ideals amount to diddly squat.
Steve.

[Grok]

I recall an attempt at marketing...sarongs being sold as "surf-kilts." I found that somewhat amusing.

I think it would work well to call imported designs by their native designations. Examples: Sarongs sold as "sarongs." Caftans sold as "caftans."

No need to concern yourself with terms such as "kilt"..."skirt"..."dress." Using the original names is a kind of honesty, that should go over well.

[Damon]

Steve wrote:

To the wider world, all these fine words, theories and ideals amount to diddly squat.
Steve.

Yes. I agree totally.