How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[robehickman]

As things stand, the barrier to entry for men who may consider adding skirts / skirted garments to their wardrobe is pretty high, due to many factors:

• Perceived social stigmas.
• Lack of garment availability. Because they were designed in the mould of woman's fashion, many skirts available have visual designs that are way outside of the norm for what most men are accustomed to wearing. This factor applies to fabric, prints, and visual ornamentation. The shaping of these garments also is not ideal in that they are designed to accommodate a notable difference in waist to hip measurement. On top of that, many skirts intentionally add bulk to the hips. Woman’s garment sizing systems are also needlessly complex and confusing.
• Missing knowledge of skirt types. There are numerous different types of skirts.
• Styling difficulties. A lot of existing menswear upper garments don't pair well with skirts, meaning that the default outfits that first timers will end up with, look proportionally awkward by default. Men are not typically taught how to balance visual proportions in an outfit.
• Male and female bodies are not the same shape. The most widely visible source of inspiration for styling skirts is women, yet a lot of the things that they do in styling outfits don't have the same effect on men due to difference in body shape.

To increase the number of men who would be willing to try skirts, it would be helpful to proactively work on eliminating those and other obstacles to the largest extent possible. Such may include:

• Social meetups (being in a group helps confidence for many people), which could also include garments to try. There are people here doing this already.
• Produce skirts for men, with designs that appeal to current male fashion sensibilities, and with sizing systems that make sense to men.
• Make sewing patterns widely available for men's skirts. Searching 'men's skirt pattern' needs to return a diverse range of good results.
• Make styling guides that demonstrate how to make outfits that work, for different body types, and on different platforms and formats (written and video).

There should be numerous more things possible.

[Stu]

Jumping straight into skirts is a bit of a long shot and probably won't happen out of nowhere. We need brave marketing on our side. Here's an example. Suppose a jeans company like Levis declared that all their denim and corduroy skirts would henceforth be deemed unisex and they showed both female and male models wearing them in their promotions, and encouraged some masculine male celebs to don them and show them off. Or maybe something of an interim stage that could be interpreted as much as a long to as it would be a dress, such as a simple smock or polo dress could be made that was a few inches above knee length and was shown being worn by models of both sex initially over unisex leggings or long shorts.

[sellek]

All good points although I do feel we can get overly hung up on the barriers. As has been noted on this site denim skirts tend to be an easy going way in. The story goes (Urban Myth) that denim skirts became a major clothing item with the hippy movement of the 60's & 70's, the story is that someone took a pair of baggy hippy jeans,, cut them up and re-sewed them as a skirt. True story or a myth? nonetheless denim skirts do tend to be an easy going skirt alternative to wearing jeans trousers.
I am currently wearing a size 12, high waisted, Long Tall Sally A line denim skirt, about 26'' in length. black tights, a mans polo shirt, tucked into the skirt and a short sleeved Per-Una blue jumper which is moderately short in body length. When I go out I put on a pair of Zara mens chelsea boots. It is an outfit that looks OK to me and has received favourable comments from others. Mostly the items were bought quite cheaply on e-bay. Yes it would be good if this was all available as mens items in the menswear aisle but nonetheless it does not seem overly tricky to put an outfit together if you are minded to do this
It is probably easiest to start skirt wearing skirts in the summer, all you need is a skirt that fits well and a close fitting polo shirt which you can tuck into the skirt, it gets more tricky in the winter but summer is a coming in.

[Warren]

Stu will perhaps remember the Topman venture into kilt like skirts for men that ended up on the sale rail very quickly indeed. ASOS had a few unisex designs available last year but they have gradually dwindled away.

It is odd that some chaps wear midi length shorts all year round and never consider a skirt!

Maybe, skirts will never be normalised for men, or maybe it will just take a long time, todays youngsters seem much less judgemental than we were at their age.

[robehickman]

Stu will perhaps remember the Topman venture into kilt like skirts for men that ended up on the sale rail very quickly indeed. ASOS had a few unisex designs available last year but they have gradually dwindled away.

I would imagine that it is currently too nice to be viable in a major clothing retailer without a serious marketing effort.

Or maybe something of an interim stage that could be interpreted as much as a long to as it would be a dress, such as a simple smock or polo dress could be made that was a few inches above knee length and was shown being worn by models of both sex initially over unisex leggings or long shorts.

I assume you meant a long top / tunic. Its quite probable that this is achievable given the presence of men in tunics in films, and link wears a tunic in the Zelda games.

[Grok]

Maybe, skirts will never be normalised for men, or maybe it will just take a long time, todays youngsters seem much less judgemental than we were at their age.

History indicates that a sartorial revolution is actually slow change over a century, especially early in the process.

In the case of Japan, it was the adoption of Western clothing styles. Starting during the late 19th century. Eventually leading to a back lash. Which failed because it had become socially acceptable to wear Western styles to work. The initial phases of this long revolution:

1. Initial experimentation with the strange clothing.

2. A sizable portion of the population starts to wear the clothing.

3. It becomes socially acceptable to wear these garments, at least for a particular purpose. In Japan's case, for work.

If the new clothing reaches stage 3, it can withstand a back lash.

4. Society has accepted the clothing, it has become routine. Possible at this stage-society creates its own variations on the styles, making them its own.

We see this in movies set during World War II. Japanese military uniforms were loosely based on Western styles, but were distinctly of Japanese design.

[Grok]

5. About a century after initial experimentation, the clothing has the status of being Conventional. For Japan, this was during the 1970s.

The Japanese did retain the old, native garments. So the Japanese nation, in effect, ended up with a dual wardrobe.

[Grok]

Western women, trying to switch to trousers.

Initial experimentation 1850. Bloomer transitional rig-short skirt over harem pantaloons.

1890s-it had become socially acceptable to wear Bloomers or culottes as athletic wear. Otherwise, women were arrested for wearing trousers.

Around 1910/1911, there was a bit more experimentation with trousers. Long harem pantaloons, or a stripped down version of culottes. If women hadn't been needed in world war munitions factories, I think something along these lines would have eventually gained traction.

1920s-beach pajamas gain traction in resort areas. After this, options for trousers increases. By the 1950s, women were still expected to wear mainly skirts/dresses, but it had become acceptable for women to wear trousers.

[Grok]

It has been reported that, in Afghanistan, the Taliban is suppressing Western clothing styles, Western hair styles. It seems that these had not yet gained enough traction to resist a back lash.

[STEVIE]

Awww shucks, that big bad world out there just refuses to play ball, isn't it just a big old stick in the mud!
News alert, in case nobody noticed, our world has got bigger things to worry about than MIS becoming the next momentous event.
The best we can do is quit wasting time with the "big" picture and concentrate on the small stuff in the here and now.
Wear a skirt, out, about, loud and proud!
Show that it's "normal" in the here and now and quit the thinking that Dreamboat AI is going to create a Dumbledorean spell to make it all fluffy and nice.
Steve.

[robehickman]

The above several comments are fine observations, however it all misses the original point: there is a considerable amount of 'low hanging fruit' which would be easy to begin to implement, and which would begin to reduce the barrier to entry.

[STEVIE]

there is a considerable amount of 'low hanging fruit' which would be easy to begin to implement,

Which, in the main, is already happening.

Social meetups (being in a group helps confidence for many people), which could also include garments to try. There are people here doing this already.
Produce skirts for men, with designs that appeal to current male fashion sensibilities, and with sizing systems that make sense to men.
Make sewing patterns widely available for men's skirts. Searching 'men's skirt pattern' needs to return a diverse range of good results.
Make styling guides that demonstrate how to make outfits that work, for different body types, and on different platforms and formats (written and video).
There should be numerous more things possible.

Nothing is impossible, just highly improbable and even less likely to have an impact in today's climate.
Adding to the really futile wishful thinking on here most certainly won't.
Get out there, be visible, nothing speaks louder than direct action.
Steve.

[FLbreezy]

If you create demand, the barriers to entry will take care of themselves. Right now there's not a herd of men demanding skirts to be available to them.

[Mouse]

• Social meetups (being in a group helps confidence for many people), which could also include garments to try. There are people here doing this already.
• Produce skirts for men, with designs that appeal to current male fashion sensibilities, and with sizing systems that make sense to men.
• Make sewing patterns widely available for men's skirts. Searching 'men's skirt pattern' needs to return a diverse range of good results.
• Make styling guides that demonstrate how to make outfits that work, for different body types, and on different platforms and formats (written and video).

There should be numerous more things possible.

OK robehickman, I think we have some of the first one covered with BM's meet-ups, the zoom meet-ups and some of us doing one to one meet-ups as they come along.

We have the Skirtcraft https://skirtcraft.com skirts that a number of us have backed in kickstarter rounds and wear. Although I am not convinced that my Skirtcraft skirt works any better on my frame than a standard Roman denim skirt at a third of the price. However I am happy to try any skirt.

Patterns for male skirts, I have only the X-Kilt. Patterns I use for my own skirts are normally based on a female skirt pattern adapted for my needs. I have various pattern books and would be happy to work with someone to develop male patterns. Most of my latex skirt patterns are circle skirts, where length and waist size are the only metrics required.

I am happy to pose for pictures in any rig to demonstrate good and bad style. I probably have a whole back catalogue of "poor male style" in my picture pages. I am not saying I am a great model and someone younger and prettier would obviously be better, but I am willing to wear anything and I know how to stand for a picture.

So I am happy to help in any capacity. Where do you want to start. Should we meet up somewhere to plan? I am willing to travel.

[Damon]

To normalize skirts for men...

For a start, stop using the word skirt. The word 'kilt' is commonly accepted by most people to signify a skirt that it is socially acceptable for a man to wear. I have seen the Greek Fustanelli described as a Greek kilt.

When my mother and my aunt first started wearing trousers in the late 1940s and early 50s they never used the word trouser. They were wearing slacks. Only much later did the words 'womens' trousers and trouser suit become acceptable.

So when you wear a denim skirt, call it a denim or jeans kilt.

There are many men out there quite willing to wear a kilt on special occasions, and a significant number who will wear one more casually and more frequently. But they would never wear a skirt.

It's like we're banging at a locked door marked 'skirts' when the door next to it labelled 'kilts' just needs a push to open it.

Though I think we greatly exaggerate in our minds or dreams the number of ordinary guys who are eager to wear anything but trousers or shorts.

I do believe that if more of us just wore something that has the appearance of a kilt and didn't wear clothes still associated uniquely with females, at least out in public, then occasionally we might make a convert. Most men and boys are terrified of being thought in any way unmasculine.