Son gives up skirts, daughter in combats and dress that became a pencil skirt

[new2skirts]

Steve, The skirt is coming on. I have cut the top off and I'm tidying up the waist before sewing on a waist band. I've also let out some pleats so I can breath a bit. It will never be at all flowy so I'm looking forward to the result. Photos to follow.

Barley I disagree with the statement that “at least they were free to choose”. Only your daughter has freedom of choice and can wear combat trousers with impunity. If you son were to choose skirts in high school, he would most likely be ostracized!! That is not freedom! Women have fashion freedom, men have sh1t and it is getting worse.

Jamie, she was non-binary from the start and she is still discovering who she is. Too much freedom in this respect may be a bad thing. For example a lot of girls go down the trans route only to find that being a guy is not the Pizza party they thought it would be. They transition back and are a bit damaged in the process. Essentially she was letting him know about what she went through as a non-binary person.
He said to me in his skirt wearing days that he didn't like the stares. Women live with staring everyday, it's terrible being stared at constantly until nobody bothers to stare at you. There's no easy path, I think.
He (my son) is very much alternative with a My Chem hoody, long shoulder length hair and rings. Crossing the gender boundary is a different matter for people. I do it but I'm too old to care.

I respectfully contest your assertion of "freedom to choose", Clearly in this case he was heavily influenced by your daughter's deployment of the "trans" slur (a variant on the "gay"/"queer" slur). The deck was stacked. He was essentially told that his behaviour will make it impossible to find a female companion -- which, to most teenage boys, is effectively a death sentence. He never had a chance.

Challenge him openly in front of other family members on the matter and have the thing out that way. He should not be attempting to offload "blame" on you. He's channeling his sister. It's important that he internalise that blaming others improperly will not do.

No not really. You attempted to make it look that way, but Father Knows Best and "society" overrode freedom. It usually does unless it benefits some special party.

I can see how it would look that way, she is a strong character and heavily influences her brothers. She probably did have some bearing on his decision. Mostly though he did not like the staring from people when he wore a skirt.
I did challenge him openly! it was utter nonsense.
I think here in the UK it might be the other way round. Women very often rule the roost and men keep the quiet for fear of incurring her anger. It's my view that that some external force is keeping men firmly in their place. They are not worried about the women so they are allowed more freedom.

So he probably WANTS to wear skirts but he is afraid of the reaction of others - which proves you didn't force him. It also shows that not wearing skirts is contrary to his own preference, but the price of exercising his preference is to be ostracised. In addition, this highlights another problem which has been mentioned on here, i.e. that the skirt is still seen as a signifier of being female and that's something some of us have been wanting to eliminate - or at least ameliorate.

So males can't wear skirts because they fear being ostracised. Females are choosing to not wear skirts because they prefer jeans/trousers/leggings. The way things are going, the only people who will be wearing skirts are trans girls/women.

All of what you say is true Stu except the last sentence. I think there is a growing population of men who are prepared to express themselves openly. If the current suppression of men continues there is liable to be more of a rebellion.

Barleymower's son was going to learn that eventually by way of interaction with the Unwashed Masses, but BM's daughter jumped the queue and went for the jugular with the "deviant" slur. We don't know why, but I'm fairly certain control was one factor. Controlling others makes some types feel good (this is one of the reasons we have laws and cops). I'd be tempted to lean on the daughter for exerting control over her brother; we're not supposed to do that other than in parent/child settings.

Steady Carl, she was concerned for him and was letting him know what she went through. I really don't believe she wanted any control on his dress sense. At least I hope not. From my own perspective I did not want him to go in on day one in a skirt. I wanted him to gain some knowledge on the how school works. If after a few months he decided to skirt it in there I would respect that. Instead he has chosen a alternative route. He has established himself and has a good group of friends.
On our meetup in Birmingham I saw quite a few 'alternatives'. Ranging from wigs, to strawberry hats and bright red shoes, flowery dungerees etc. But very few skirts, the skirt is a taboo and no mistake.

Your son, if he wished could wear a kilt... if he's got more of a Gothic style, there's plenty of long combat style skirts if he wishes. But when you're young, and if you're popular, you follow the crowd. And his sister may just be looking out for him. If he no longer wishes to please Dad by wearing a skirt and prefers jeans and regular guy stuff like his peers, then let him. He may re visit skirts or kilts later on in life.

Some young guys who may be more gender fluid may love to add skirts, tights shoes, makeup to their wardrobe, others may find an expanded wardrobe harder to explain to a girl they like. As everything for teens is image and appearance, the young girl he likes may feel embarrassed by him in a tight skirt, tights and boots at the local cinema or shopping mall

For many women, skirts may require more effort to wear with certain clothes, sit properly, not to be leered at by guys... or it's more work wear. You will see the skirts and dresses more in the summer, and if you follow UK Tabloids even the builders and bus drivers may join in with schoolkids rebelling as there's a shorts ban in their school in a heatwave...

Everything is by choice so let your son follow his peers and design his own wardobe for now

[timemeddler]

sounds hypocritical to say the least.

[Damon]

CR Friend wrote:

I witnessed the progress that was made in the '60s and the '70s on this front, and saw it all snatched away in the rightward lurch that convulsed pretty much the entire world at about the time of the Iranian revolution.

And now history is repeating. Unrest in Iran and the Overton window is moving to the right at increasing speed. In the sixties I was convinced that James Laver, Curator of the Costume Department at the V and A Museum was right in his prediction that by the year 2000 it would be normal for men to wear skirts and most men would have a few in their wardrobe. Sadly, I think no one alive will ever see that day.