"Can I be a Christian and a cross-dresser?"

[MrSoapsud]

This is a piece written by the Pastor of the online church of which I am a member, Fab.church. I thought I'd post it here as it's rather different in tone to most pieces tackling Christianity or the Bible and wearing clothes.

For clarification he starts with "For the sake of this article, cross-dressing is defined as the wearing of clothes culturally, traditionally, or stereotypically associated with the opposite gender.", so in the context of the article, a man wearing a skirt counts as cross-dressing. I know this is a hot topic in the Cafe but please just have a look at the article and feel free to comment on it. I'm happy to pass comments back to the author if desired.

https://fab.church/insights/can-i-be-a- ... s-dresser/

For background, "Fab Church was born out of a passion to make God’s love accessible to all — especially those who feel marginalised, broken, hurting, excluded, or poor in spirit." It is a fully inclusive Christian community of (currently) English speakers from various countries including, but not exclusively, members of the LGBTQ+ and gender non-conforming communities.

[Mouse]

My parent’s and brothers’s church could do with the same understanding of the biblical texts. My brother gave me grief over a black kilt, since it wasn’t “a real kilt”.

It is good that some churches are bringing more understanding to the bible passages.

[Uncle Al]

This is a piece written by the Pastor of the online church of which I am a member, Fab.church. I thought I'd
post it here as it's rather different in tone to most pieces tackling Christianity or the Bible and wearing clothes.

https://fab.church/insights/can-i-be-a- ... s-dresser/

Thanks for the link. Quite interesting and puts many things into a proper perspective

Uncle Al

[MrSoapsud]

My parent’s and brothers’s church could do with the same understanding of the biblical texts. My brother gave me grief over a black kilt, since it wasn’t “a real kilt”.

It is good that some churches are bringing more understanding to the bible passages.

Not "a real kilt"? Seriously? Who defines what's "a real kilt"?

Fab are trying but I can't vouch for other churches. We've just been made unwelcome at the previous one we'd been at for 7 years after I foolishly wore a skirt a few times.

[MrSoapsud]

Thanks for the link. Quite interesting and puts many things into a proper perspective

Thanks for taking a look Al. I did contribute a bit towards it so I'm not unbiased!

[Mouse]

Not "a real kilt"? Seriously? Who defines what's "a real kilt"?

I had a discussion on a Sunday morning as to what I was wearing to church. My Brother used all manner of arguments that I should not go in a black kilt, including all the standard bible passages and the fact that it was not tartan. In the end to keep the peace and not ruin the big family holiday for my mother's 90th that I had organised, I just deleted me from the church attending group and added myself to the cooking Sunday dinner group. Christians that do not have logic to their arguments or scientific fact have always lost my vote, which is why I never joined in my youth when I was supposed to have.

[Stu]

I would dispute the suggested definition of crossdressing. I have lost 30lbs in weight over the past 6 months. My wife found a heavy woollen, cream-coloured cardigan she no longer wears and asked me if I could wear it for e.g. walking the dog. If I wear it, does that mean I am crossdressing? Of course not. Is she crossdressing when she borrows my long raincoat in wet weather? Absolutely not. If I wear a skirt as an alternative to trousers while otherwise presenting as fully male, I am at most challenging a fashion convention.

[jamie001]

I would dispute the suggested definition of crossdressing. I have lost 30lbs in weight over the past 6 months. My wife found a heavy woollen, cream-coloured cardigan she no longer wears and asked me if I could wear it for e.g. walking the dog. If I wear it, does that mean I am crossdressing? Of course not. Is she crossdressing when she borrows my long raincoat in wet weather? Absolutely not. If I wear a skirt as an alternative to trousers while otherwise presenting as fully male, I am at most challenging a fashion convention.

There is no such thing as crossdressing because clothing is assigned as male or female by society. It is nothing but marketing and should be ignored.

[robehickman]

clothing is assigned as male or female by society. It is nothing but marketing and should be ignored.

I don't entirely agree with this ideology given my (limited) understanding of western fashion history, but agree with the general point.

The long history of dresses in various shapes that constituted woman's fashion until the 1960's or so, evolved from unfitted gowns of the late medieval period. Women started wearing gowns that were more and more fitted to the 'hourglass' body shape that most women posses. A simple dress fitted to a woman forms a shape which is an extrapolation of the shape of a woman's torso / hips.

Woman's fashion then evolved from this point by exaggerating various parts of the 'extrapolated' hourglass shape, through very large diameter skirts, padded shoulders, large sleeves and bustles, in various proportions. From this perspective, western woman's fashion regarding dresses, is a direct extension of the female body form, and thus is not arbitrary.

Male bodies are shaped differently. They are much straighter and the center of visual mass is either in the shoulders, or uniformly distributed over the torso. Male bodies are on average more angular in shape, and the generally angular shape of male fashion is to some extent a reflection of this. There are examples historically that incorporate more curves, as well as Victorian era 'dandy' fashion with unnatural male forms resulting from corsets.

The reason why a drag act looks like a drag act is due to this fundamental difference in body shape, there is an inherent dissonance between the shape of the body of the person, and the shape of the garment they are wearing. Women can more easily wear men's garments than vice versa, because a straight cut garment can cover curves, but you can't create curves where there are none (you can to a limited extent with corsets, but the body shape is still different).

This kind of dissonance is less prominent in modern fashion because both wear trousers by default, and a lot of men's and woman's garments are cut with a 'boxy' fit, so men can often also wear them.

It is also possible to borrow concepts from female fashion into menswear, such as the billy porter hoop skirt gown, a piece of social art. That garment is relatively harmonious with the male form because it is relatively angular.

[Mouse]

"cross-dresser"

is not my favourite term for what I wear and do, but it is a reasonable short hand that others have used in describing me in medical reports of the state of my brain and mental capacity.

In some of my outfits, everything I am wearing, except the hat and septum piercing, is from the pink side of the shop. So I can't complain if some term me dressing from across the blue/pink line.

At the end of the day, we do not control how others describe us, so I no longer care and just lean into being me and free.