What women really think

[Barleymower]

To some of the naysayers, especially those of the "Mumsnet" derivative -- that place is a cesspit, pure and simple.

Yes it is,. just like life.
To reiterate, the comments coming from the cesspit were resonably encourging. It's time for MIS to walk tall and wear what they like. If they get any grief, especially from partners or close family members, or peoplle who post on mumsnet, tell them:
This is what equality looks like. Be happy.
Anyway...
You must develop the ability to be disliked in order to free yourself from people's opinions.

Btw Carl, I hope it's nothing serious.

[MrSoapsud]

To reiterate, the comments coming from the cesspit were resonably encourging. It's time for MIS to walk tall and wear what they like. If they get any grief, especially from partners or close family members, or peoplle who post on mumsnet, tell them:

Do you still have the link for the thread BM?

[Barleymower]

No, so I googled the same question and got another mums-nest link:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ear-skirts
Here's a more recent link (they dont talk about it as much as we do)
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ns-clothes

i'm not concerned what the patrons of the other forum, think, say or do. The purpose of the thread to say even the most ardent feminist does not really care, as long as they are getting what they want.

[crfriend]

i'm not concerned what the patrons of the other forum, think, say or do. The purpose of the thread to say even the most ardent feminist does not really care, as long as they are getting what they want.

For the most part "ardent feminists" (of the modern ilk) will lump us in with every male that they want to see permanently behind bars.

Our problem is primarily with the knuckle-draggers who cannot escape the herd mentality and are incapable of independent thought. Interestingly -- and rather concerning -- is that even ones that seem intelligent on the surface can turn into knuckle-draggers sometimes as quick as one can snap their fingers. This makes decision-making rather "difficult" and potentially dangerous.

[Barleymower]

For the most part "ardent feminists" (of the modern ilk) will lump us in with every male that they want to see permanently behind bars.

They won't get their way because it is plain wrong.
The second link is much like the first with some politics thrown in that have risen to the surface over the last few years. Namely the TERF war on the trans community.

There were a couple of things said before I got bored:
1. Making a parady of women
Oh really? Men have been a made a parody for YEARS. Men and been made to look stupid over and over again. Have they ever fought back? No.
I think what the poster is really refering to is that in some people eyes MIS are looking stupid when the wear the same clothes as women and by making themselves look stupid, they make women look stupid.
2. A lady who has a Trans daughter is worried that her daughter is forced to go full fem (to be female), wear falseies, take estrogen and later on bottom surgery. She felt that her son could just be himself, wear the clothes he wants to wear, find his own style without all the other stuff.

I'll leave you to make your own mind up on their comments.

[TSH]

This narrow-minded, dull-witted attitude is something I can't look past or forgive that easily, especially since people are supposed to be more progressive and accepting of other people than they were yesteryear, but it's the same ol' ****, again and again. Makes me wonder what's there to be hopeful for...
....these reactions aren't far off from how people in real life view men in skirts.

TSH i think that being "narrow-minded, dull-witted" is out of peoples control to some extent. It doesn't help ourselves either to be too angry. The sadness and frustration gnaws at us if left unresolved. So i let it go, talk about here, talk to them about it so they might change or if necessary confront them. Arty (Dr fishnets) did this recently when he met his aunt in the street.

I understand that anger can (and often does) lead to more strife, but I honestly can't think of an emotion that's genuine enough to express the things that shaped my perspective on people, and the world at large. Much of it really is *****. That homophobic and alleged "sexual predatory" BS is what really set me off. In this day and age, the word "gay" is becoming an insult, again. And keep in mind that both femininity in men and homosexuality have both been subjects that have been historically condemned. Linking effeminate men to homosexuality is not even just thinly-veiled homophobia — it's outright conjuring a harmful stereotype to get the public to recoil at men who subvert traditional gender roles without even realizing how it affects gay men. How it even affects women themselves. It's proof that people can, and do (and have) regress over time.

That's why I posted "what women really think". I didn't post it to get peoples backs up. Quite the opposite. Rather than think the worst I wanted to know what they are saying. My conclusion was that most of the replies were in favour of fashion freedom for men.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't mean much if these people don't migrate here and help us reach the goal of simply making skirts for men NOT taboo, anymore. You've said this yourself:

What people post does not match their actions.

No, so I googled the same question and got another mums-nest link:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ear-skirts
Here's a more recent link (they dont talk about it as much as we do)
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ns-clothes

i'm not concerned what the patrons of the other forum, think, say or do. The purpose of the thread to say even the most ardent feminist does not really care, as long as they are getting what they want.

I'm not either. I only clicked on those links to see what the titles said. I'm not interested in stumbling upon some idiot posting something idiotic, so it's better to just avoid reading those discussions altogether. No self-respecting feminist (and whichever form the term takes) would pine for equality, but then balk at the idea that clothing like skirts should just be for one sex, instead of for both sexes. It's contradictory — most people have contradictory stances and double standards that they don't even realize. When you point this out to them, they don't even seem to care that their own personal beliefs aren't even consistent.

For the most part "ardent feminists" (of the modern ilk) will lump us in with every male that they want to see permanently behind bars.

They won't get their way because it is plain wrong.
The second link is much like the first with some politics thrown in that have risen to the surface over the last few years. Namely the TERF war on the trans community.

Ah, yes. The stupidest culture war in American history is being waged, while the current "administration" is a fascist takeover placing cuts on everything that's for the benefit of the American people who were stupid enough to let this oligarchy happen and fester within the White House. I know politics is a touchy subject, but this needed to said, because the only reason why we're still doing this is because transphobic douchenozzles don't want to actually learn anything about trans people, so they just repeat tired, moronic straw mans and misrepresentations about a subject they know dick about it.

[jamie001]

The issue is the Whitehouse war on gay, trans, and anyone who is gender nonconforming. The ideology is invading the minds of many Americans causing regression. I would say that in the past 8 months, we have regressed about 10 years in LGBTQ rights and how how trans and gender nonconforming people are viewed. It is a sad state of affairs. Why can't conservative politicians just stick to conservative fiscal policies and foreign policy, and leave the fcking social issues alone and stop attempting to remove basic freedoms and protections that rightfully belong to all Americans?

[MrSoapsud]

No, so I googled the same question and got another mums-nest link:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ear-skirts
Here's a more recent link (they dont talk about it as much as we do)
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rig ... ns-clothes

Thanks BM. I was aware of (and think I contributed to) the first thread and have just put a reply in the second. The comments are, as you suggested, a very broad range. Some highlight how judgemental women are of other women! Some highlight an ingrained objection to men getting out of the man-box. Some believe they know exactly what the man they've seen is thinking! Bizarre.

[Uncle Al]

The issue is the Whitehouse war on gay, trans, and anyone who is gender nonconforming. <snip>

WHY do you blame everything going wrong on "The White House"

Look at the people around you. The "Grass Roots" of Society.
The "Microcosm" around you doesn't reflect the views of all Americans.

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to
choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

Uncle Al

[Barleymower]

Thanks BM. I was aware of (and think I contributed to) the first thread and have just put a reply in the second. The comments are, as you suggested, a very broad range. Some highlight how judgemental women are of other women! Some highlight an ingrained objection to men getting out of the man-box. Some believe they know exactly what the man they've seen is thinking! Bizarre.

I've joined the debate over on the mums net. So far it's been rough but they haven't come up with anything that couldn't be easily countered.

[Susie]

Some believe they know exactly what the man they've seen is thinking! Bizarre.

Considering the title of this thread and the comments being made, this is the bizarre comment.

[STEVIE]

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to
choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

The cafe may not be about LGBTQ+ concepts but fashion freedom for men and men in skirts is inextricably linked to it whether we agree or not.
How I identify as a guy, skirt or not, is very different from how my father identified as a man.
In turn, my own son sees his own masculinity uniquely too.
The freedom for a man to choose as a man what he wears for comfort or anything else is certainly linked to his deepest identity however he chooses to name it.
If we think in terms of the thread title and subsequent contributions, we are no closer to any kind of answer and I really cannot see how comments like yours help our cause either.
Also in the original post from Barleymower, the "Mums'" comments, I failed to see one of finding a man in a skirt as positive partner potential.

bizarre

And so we trundle on.
Steve.

[MrSoapsud]

Some believe they know exactly what the man they've seen is thinking! Bizarre.

Considering the title of this thread and the comments being made, this is the bizarre comment.

Sorry Susie - I was referring to the number of comments in the Mumsnet thread from women who obviously believe they know what's in a man's head from what they're wearing.

[Barleymower]

Also in the original post from Barleymower, the "Mums'" comments, I failed to see one of finding a man in a skirt as positive partner potential.

And so we trundle on.
Steve.

They were there Stevie, not many but a few.
I created a Barleymower user name and responded to the thread. I did not not say I was male immediately and i recived replies to my comments. Some of the comments back were quite vociferous and nasty some were looking for genuine debate.
I posted for couple of hours and then said that I had enjoyed talking to them and told them a bit about myself. End of story account deleted.

[crfriend]

LGBTQ+ concepts are not what Skirt Cafe' is about. We're here to promote a man's ability to choose what he wants for his clothing comfort and freedom, AS MEN - NOT how he 'identifies'.

The problem here is that there's no latitude any longer for expressions that do not follow the "traditional" "Father Knows Best" mentality -- and that's a direct reflection of what's sitting at the top of the pile at the moment. The problem is that the damage is already done and it'll take generations to erase the damage.