Random person yelling 'what are your pronouns'

[robehickman]

MiS may have some footing in dance circles, but if it's been acceptable for decades, yet still hasn't caught on in the greater sphere of fashion, we need to investigate why that is.

Also, not that I doubt you, but I'd like to see some of these YouTube videos, if it's okay with you.

The following video was posted 6 years ago but apparently was filmed in 2011 and features quite a number of men dancing in flowy skirts. It is very hard to see how many due to the size of the dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyhl89yGMFA

Another dance, same band, similar time period, has men in flowy skirts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KevQxr-saFw

You can just search 'contra dance' on YouTube and pretty much any video you watch is going to have at least one male dancer in a skirt.

I'm friends with a contra caller and she is my source for 'this has been going on since around 2000, if not longer', although there's very little written record and as it seems to be mainly a USA thing, and I'm in the UK, it's somewhat difficult for me to question a large number of older dancers / callers to see if they have any recollection.

There are films of contras from the 50's ish on youtube with typical clothing in effect, so the skirts thing seems to have started sometime between then and the early 2000's.

I have not been able to find any serious studies into it as an isolated phenomenon, though the following paper addresses clothing among contra dancers generally, mentions man in skirts, and is from 2004: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137718

[timemeddler]

MiS may have some footing in dance circles, but if it's been acceptable for decades, yet still hasn't caught on in the greater sphere of fashion, we need to investigate why that is.

Probably because dancing today is a niche hobby and is no longer common amongst the general public.

[Stu]

I have twice been asked for my pronouns of forms. The first time asked me "preferred pronouns" and there was a space for my answer. I said: None/nothing". Those are pronouns of course, but I was never referred to with them so far as I know. The second occasion required my to specify HE/HIM; SHE/HER; THEY/THEM. I put a circle round SHE/HER - just to make the point that if you ask a silly question, you will get a silly answer. I am pretty sure it was ignored.

Pronouns are not like personal names like "Stu", or even nouns like "man"; pronouns are function words and a property of the grammar of the language. We are talking about third person personal and possessive pronouns in this case and they are never used to address people; they are used by a speaker to a listener and to refer to a third person.

[rivegauche]

I haven't been asked but even women who know I am male have used she/her when I have been presenting as a woman. I prefer he but if you present as a woman you have no grounds for complaint if you are treated as one. I have been asked to put my pronouns in my email signature and refused. If anyone insists I would be tempted to reply he/her/its.

[JohnH]

Most women do not wear skirts any more and have not done so for quite some time, yet there remains a lingering association of them being 'for women', and the LGBTQ

The fact that most women don't wear skirts or dresses means people view me as simply an individual, man or woman, wearing a dress when I wear a dress (almost all the time).

John

[TonautBrom]

@Mouse Hi, thank you, circle skirts do have a lovely flow to them, how does a latex one behave? It seems that women have no issue with guys in skirts - I was wearing a skirt most of the time at both Sidmouth and Shrewsbury folk festival and had many complements from women of various ages, the people around Sidmouth didn't bat an eye.

@FLbreezy, @Fred in Skirts, @Stu, I agree, just ignore people. Actually I find wearing a skirt as a guy quite empowering because it feels very taboo on one hand, but the majority of people don't care at all. Hopefully this becomes more normalised, in my opinion it's about time men's clothing broke out of the 'boring box', and women have been wearing who knows what for years.

Ah, I was at Shrewsbury FF. Would have been nice to say hi.

[robehickman]

@Mouse Hi, thank you, circle skirts do have a lovely flow to them, how does a latex one behave? It seems that women have no issue with guys in skirts - I was wearing a skirt most of the time at both Sidmouth and Shrewsbury folk festival and had many complements from women of various ages, the people around Sidmouth didn't bat an eye.

@FLbreezy, @Fred in Skirts, @Stu, I agree, just ignore people. Actually I find wearing a skirt as a guy quite empowering because it feels very taboo on one hand, but the majority of people don't care at all. Hopefully this becomes more normalised, in my opinion it's about time men's clothing broke out of the 'boring box', and women have been wearing who knows what for years.

Ah, I was at Shrewsbury FF. Would have been nice to say hi.

Would have been, I was wearing my bright red circle and a half skirt and was in the dance tent, or music sessions most of the time, you may have seen me.

[JeffB1959]

I’ve never been asked about pronouns while garbed from head to toe in women’s clothing. However, I have been called “Miss” from time to time, even though I don’t pretend to be anything but a man in a dress and heels, something that never fails to amuse me.

[TonautBrom]

Ah, I was at Shrewsbury FF. Would have been nice to say hi.

Would have been, I was wearing my bright red circle and a half skirt and was in the dance tent, or music sessions most of the time, you may have seen me.

Sadly I didn’t, only made it into the dance tent once this year, to watch the folk ballet. (Shame the only male dancer wasn’t wearing a skirt btw).

[robehickman]

Sadly I didn’t, only made it into the dance tent once this year, to watch the folk ballet. (Shame the only male dancer wasn’t wearing a skirt btw).

I was also watching that performance, but I think it was on the day when it was very windy and I wasn't wearing a skirt due to it. Only have one decent one and it's very flighty in any moderate amount of wind. Also so many people there it would be hard to pick out anyone.

I enjoyed that performance a great deal, it was very tight and professional. I didn't question the clothing of the dancers as I assume they had a vibe they were going for, but skirts can do a lot to amplify a dancer's movements.

[TonautBrom]

It was indeed beautiful.

[rode_kater]

Somebody high up in my (British) company decided to enable the "pronouns" option in Teams and duly people starting filling in emoji of animals, or other funny things. That apparently got up someone's nose so they sent out a message to everyone who did that to ask them to explain in which way that was correct use of the pronoun field. So in response many of us filled in "Any" which apparently still annoys them, but they can't complain about it.

I honestly don't care which pronoun people use. Whatever they feel is most appropriate for their listeners.

[crfriend]

I honestly don't care which pronoun people use. Whatever they feel is most appropriate for their listeners.

The choice does not belong to the "recipient" of the pronoun. The choice is made by the language in use in the locale. Full stop.

Take this bit of inanity: "I identify as a walrus. Therefore my "pronoun" would be something along the lines of, "Oh, that toolbox belongs to the walrus in the corner."

As far as the animalia "getting up the nose" of somebody, that's their problem (with proper English grammar observed because "their" is appropriate in situations where the sex of the object is unknown or irrelevant).

[STEVIE]

As far as the animalia "getting up the nose" of somebody, that's their problem (with proper English grammar observed because "their" is appropriate in situations where the sex of the object is unknown or irrelevant).

Outside of intimate, or medical discussion, is an individual's sex ever relevant?
Can objects have sex and choose random pronouns, I know a rather fetching Willow whose bark is worse than their bite?
Ah, but a touch of silliness at 05:00 on a Sunday morning cannot be bad.
Steve.
Apologies to the anti-punsters!

[rode_kater]

I honestly don't care which pronoun people use. Whatever they feel is most appropriate for their listeners.

The choice does not belong to the "recipient" of the pronoun. The choice is made by the language in use in the locale. Full stop.

That's not what I said. You use third person pronouns generally when the referred person is not present, ergo they are not a listener.

If you refer to me as "the walrus" and everybody in the room knows you're referring to me, that makes it a valid use as a pronoun. Not likely to happen though. Referring to me as "the weird one" or "the long haired one" might work though.