Sightings "in the wild"

[Jim]

I just watched a man make the case against pronouns along similar grounds.
His argument is that They and Them are plural terms that have nothing to do with the gender of the induvial involved. Using They/Them to refer to a single induvial would be grammatically incorrect and he refuses to use the English language in such a manner. Until such time as a new non gender specific pronoun enters the English language he will continue to use grammatically correct pronouns like he always has.

This is historically true. "He/him" had that definition (that one whose sex is unknown or immaterial") when I was growing up. You will find that usage in books from before the 1980s. In trying to make language more inclusive, they destroyed a fine, fully inclusive term.

[Fred in Skirts]

I will vote "no" on the pronoun thing. Pronouns are a grammatical construct not a personal preference. They belong to the linguistics of the language.
Yes, "they" is linguistically "correct" in cases where a gender is unknown -- or irrelevant. So be done with it. Stop bending the language with PC BS. Please.

I just read a news article where they kept switching back and forth between "he" and "they" for the same person, It got to be very confusing for me to keep up with who the article was talking about. This along with the lack of proof reading are my two biggest head aches when reading the news on line. I do not take the paper any more as I no longer have a bird cage to line.

[Myopic Bookworm]

His argument is that They and Them are plural terms that have nothing to do with the gender of the induvial involved. Using They/Them to refer to a single induvial would be grammatically incorrect and he refuses to use the English language in such a manner. Until such time as a new non gender specific pronoun enters the English language he will continue to use grammatically correct pronouns like he always has.

He's wrong! (I mean, if anyone claims this, then they're wrong!)

[crfriend]

Until such time as a new non gender specific pronoun enters the English language he will continue to use grammatically correct pronouns like he always has.

He's wrong! (I mean, if anyone claims this, then they're wrong!)

But we have a perfectly good gender-free pronoun in "it" and its variants.

I'm primarily upset that the language no longer means what it used to, and its gotten to the point where it's impeding concise communication.

[crfriend]

I just read a news article where they kept switching back and forth between "he" and "they" for the same person, It got to be very confusing for me to keep up with who the article was talking about. This along with the lack of proof reading are my two biggest head aches when reading the news on line. I do not take the paper any more as I no longer have a bird cage to line.

That might just be sloppy copy-editing, but it might also indicate a use of "AI" to write copy because there may not be enough qualified proofreaders still employed to look after niggling little gaffes like that -- which are very prevalent in the PC world anyway. See if you can identify any of the hallmarks of non-human origin.

[Uncle Al]

<snip> it might also indicate a use of "AI" to write copy <snip>

Depending on the font used, a lower case L ( l ) looks like the letter I ( i ) when reading the sentence.
Could we PLEASE use a period ( . ) after each letter in "AI" (ie: A. I.) so that I don't get confused
with Artificial Intelligence One member has already done this and, when advised that I'm a
'REAL' person, they've stopped posting.

I've been accused of many things but A.I.(Artificial Intelligence) hasn't been one of them

Now, may we PLEASE get this thread BACK ON TOPIC and stop with the P. C. labels

On Topic = What we've seen when we're out and about.....

(If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's not a dog in a costume. IT'S A DUCK )

Uncle Al

[rode_kater]

I just watched a man make the case against pronouns along similar grounds.
His argument is that They and Them are plural terms that have nothing to do with the gender of the induvial involved. Using They/Them to refer to a single induvial would be grammatically incorrect and he refuses to use the English language in such a manner.

Oh really?

"What are they doing?" - doesn't tell you there is more than one person. Even if there is only one person, it's a correct sentence.

You could say "What is that person doing?" - except people don't actually say that because it's longer.

Until such time as a new non gender specific pronoun enters the English language he will continue to use grammatically correct pronouns like he always has.

Singular they is over 600 years old now. We don't need a new pronoun, we need people to throw away their 20th century style guides that tried to claim "they" was only for plurals in complete contradiction to how it is actually used.

[crfriend]

Depending on the font used, a lower case L ( l ) looks like the letter I ( i ) when reading the sentence.
Could we PLEASE use a period ( . ) after each letter in "AI" (ie: A. I.) so that I don't get confused
with Artificial Intelligence

Sorry about that Al. But it's the luck of the draw. Serif fonts really have their place in legibility, but "modern communication" (or what tries to pass for) has deemed that the serif is obsolete.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I'm primarily upset that the language no longer means what it used to, and its gotten to the point where it's impeding concise communication.

Prithee, to whych goolden age of ye Englisc tong wouldst thou return?

[crfriend]

Prithee, to whych goolden age of ye Englisc tong wouldst thou return?

The late 19th or early 20th Centuries would be nice. That was before the wholly corrupting influence of PC was introduced. If the past 50 years of "evolution" could be erased, it'd be a good thing.

Some may note that my tone is changing a bit, and my writing has become a bit "sharper". This is a direct reaction to PC, and if some folks find it offensive, then too bad. There are a whole lot of things in the modern world that are patently offensive, and we'd better get used to it (or fight back) because it's not going to get any better.

[howardfh]

Getting this back on topic - sightings in the wild - Sweet Green Tavern last night, trendy guy in a black kilt-like knee-length skirt. Was on my way out so didn't get the chance to compliment.

Clientele of the pub is mixed, some GLBT punters, some the more traditional pub-goers, and some into rock/goth/metal and I think that latter group would be the first to embrace skirt-wearing fully.

[TonautBrom]

Not sure if this counts as ‘in the wild’ but had an enjoyable evening watching an outdoor performance of A Comedy of Errors this week. All the performers, male and female, wearing some form of dress, and very good they looked too. Tremendously engaging and funny to boot!

[STEVIE]

Aberdeen City centre at around 3.00 this afternoon, a 40 something guy in a black full skirt and quite colourful top.
Can't say he looked cool as it was baking hot.
Couldn't speak to him, I was in moving traffic.
Steve.

[LiuBang]

Yesterday at a Costco on San Diego. A person (clearly a
biological male). Broad shouldered, tall, flat chested, some facial hair. No cosmetics. Grey hair in a ponytail. Unisex T shirt, unisex flip flops, etc. Only thing "feminine" was he was wearing a plain, rather discrete, maxiskirt.

Most likely he's trans and isn't a straight cis-guy though. I mean this is literally the first time I've seen a clearly biologically male person wear a woman's skirt in Southern California after years and years of living here.

[Derek Plattis]

A person (clearly a
biological male). Broad shouldered, tall, flat chested, some facial hair. No cosmetics. Grey hair in a ponytail. Unisex T shirt, unisex flip flops, etc. Only thing "feminine" was he was wearing a plain, rather discrete, maxiskirt.

Most likely he's trans and isn't a straight cis-guy though. I mean this is literally the first time I've seen a clearly biologically male person wear a woman's skirt in Southern California after years and years of living here.

You seem to make a couple of stark assumptions here LiuBang! Firstly, I think a lot of users of this forum would agree that a maxi-skirt is not necessarily a feminine garment and the assumption that the person you saw is trans could well be unfounded. I am a biological, heterosexual male and I wear maxi-skirts often.
regards,
Derek