American men: Are you allowed to wear a skirt at work?

[LiuBang]

In 2024, I wonder if my fellow American men working desk jobs are allowed to wear skirts at work. Can you, as a cis-man, wear a skirt at a desk job? Can you do so only once you've gained enough seniority at your company?

If so, I might try at some point. I'd try wearing a plain, blue knee-length skirt with a unisex T-shirt/unisex shoes, short hair, and zero cosmetics to see if I'm mistaken as a trans-woman in public (I bet I would, especially in more progressive areas).

[Coder]

I have no issue - and could have started wearing them the first day I started but I work at a liberal employer.

One should try to not obsess over worry about trans misidentification - people may inquire but if you don’t act any different, and if you keep your pronouns unchanged, what does it matter? I realize - if you are straight - that it may pose a challenge to finding an interested partner - but you either meet someone who knows or someone who finds out and unpredictability reacts.

[crfriend]

Back before the office I worked in was closed and I started working remotely, I routinely wore skirts to work -- with the proviso that they were longer than knee length.

That having been said, and in light of much of the noise even here recently, it would be likely that you will fall foul of the "SD Spectrum" and other policing tactics that are routinely used on men. Give up on finding a female love interest -- it isn't going to happen. You likely won't get much public push-back, but folks will look strangely at you as they process the "correct" "label" for you (which will entirely likely be flat wrong).

With stamina and persistence, in small towns, it is possible to overcome the "stigma", but in larger places may be a bit of a waste of time because the number of people is larger and it takes personal familiarity to overcome the stereotyping.

I envy Steve's stubbornness in the matter -- I wish I had some of that. I'm just thinking seriously of giving up.

[timemeddler]

osha is the only thing stopping me.

[phathack]

If I still worked in a office I might give it a shot as the company was very progressive.
The problem is I would have been one of maybe 4 people in a skirt in the whole building.

[LiuBang]

I routinely wore skirts to work -- with the proviso that they were longer than knee length.

Well duh, even women are typically required to make sure their skirts are knee length or longer. You mean even you wearing top of the knee A Line skirt would be too short?

That having been said, and in light of much of the noise even here recently, it would be likely that you will fall foul of the "SD Spectrum" and other policing tactics that are routinely used on men.

What's the SD Spectrum? And what are some other policing tactics?

Give up on finding a female love interest -- it isn't going to happen. You likely won't get much public push-back,

No problem. I am straight, but dating is dead last in my list of life priorities.

But I guess your point is that the anti-MIS crowd tends to be female-dominated, right?

but folks will look strangely at you as they process the "correct" "label" for you (which will entirely likely be flat wrong).

So you mean even if I wear a plain, simple navy blue knee-length A line skirt with a unisex T-shirt, unisex sandals, short hair, and zero cosmetics, people will still assume I'm trans?

With stamina and persistence, in small towns, it is possible to overcome the "stigma", but in larger places may be a bit of a waste of time because the number of people is larger and it takes personal familiarity to overcome the stereotyping.

You mean small towns are ironically more open to MIS because they don't stereotype MIS as being trans? Whereas urban progressives just pigeonhole MIS as trans because they're so deep into PC and pronouns?

[shadowfax]

Mark Bryan, perhaps one of the most well-known of our SkirtCafe members (Mark as in Mark), worked skirted, 6 months in the USA and six months in Germany each year.
Here's a thread about him, here on SC.
Here is his main, Pics and Looks thread.

I believe that Mark initially sought permission from his employer to work in a skirt, hose and high heels.

[FLbreezy]

I haven't had to work in an office in over 20 years since I'm home office based now, but when I did it was a very conservative company: suit/tie for men, skirt suit/dress for women (and no bare legs). I'd definitely do the skirt suit but I can't see shaving my legs and wearing stockings to conform to the dress code (and no way would I wear high heels either)

If I was in a more typical IT company office these days I'd definitely wear "business casual" skirts and if they didn't like it, I don't think I'd work there very long.

[crfriend]

Well duh, even women are typically required to make sure their skirts are knee length or longer. You mean even you wearing top of the knee A Line skirt would be too short?

Yep. "Too short". That said, there was no mention of it in the Corporate Dress Code -- and I went through that with a fine-toothed comb to be sure.

What's the SD Spectrum? And what are some other policing tactics?

The Spectrum of Sexual Deviancy. Think the "LGBTQWTF+" crowd. I'm tired of the PC aspect and verbiage. Cut to the chase and expose it for what it is. That's just one of the tools in the "policing" kit; there are also a wide range of shaming, shunning, and rejecting behaviours to deal with "those who do not conform". Once you get hit with some of those you'll start to recognise them.

But I guess your point is that the anti-MIS crowd tends to be female-dominated, right?

Nope, the "anti-MIS" crowd is very much equal-opportunity with as many men as women in it.

So you mean even if I wear a plain, simple navy blue knee-length A line skirt with a unisex T-shirt, unisex sandals, short hair, and zero cosmetics, people will still assume I'm trans?

Very highly likely yes. This can be overcome, but typically that requires interaction and conversation.

You mean small towns are ironically more open to MIS because they don't stereotype MIS as being trans? Whereas urban progressives just pigeonhole MIS as trans because they're so deep into PC and pronouns?

It's more to do with demographics than anything else. People living in small towns typically know more people more closely than city-dwellers do, and are thus more likely to interact with people instead of simply walking by.

[LiuBang]

The Spectrum of Sexual Deviancy. Think the "LGBTQWTF+" crowd. I'm tired of the PC aspect and verbiage. Cut to the chase and expose it for what it is. That's just one of the tools in the "policing" kit; there are also a wide range of shaming, shunning, and rejecting behaviours to deal with "those who do not conform". Once you get hit with some of those you'll start to recognise them.

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

[Fred in Skirts]

The Spectrum of Sexual Deviancy. Think the "LGBTQWTF+" crowd. I'm tired of the PC aspect and verbiage. Cut to the chase and expose it for what it is. That's just one of the tools in the "policing" kit; there are also a wide range of shaming, shunning, and rejecting behaviours to deal with "those who do not conform". Once you get hit with some of those you'll start to recognise them.

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

That is exactly what he means!!!

[crfriend]

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

Not precisely at this moment, but that time is closing in very, very quickly. Pretty soon the mere act of shoving both legs down one pipe will be construed at proof. We -- as men in skirts need to discriminate ourselves from those who use the skirt as a signifier of being on the SD Spectrum. Else the cause is lost for another 50 or 75 years.

[jamie001]

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

Not precisely at this moment, but that time is closing in very, very quickly. Pretty soon the mere act of shoving both legs down one pipe will be construed at proof. We -- as men in skirts need to discriminate ourselves from those who use the skirt as a signifier of being on the SD Spectrum. Else the cause is lost for another 50 or 75 years.

A better idea is to simply stop worrying about how other folks label us. When women first started wearing pants outside of factories, they were labeled as Lesbians. It didn’t stop them. When men started wearing long hair, they were labeled as hippies and sissies. I grew up in this time period so I know. When men started wearing earrings especially in both ears, they were labeled as sissies and gay homosexuals. The point is that none of these things stopped or discouraged them and they are going strong today because they have thick skin.

It doesn’t matter if you identify as CIS, or somewhere on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, just wear what you want to wear and don’t worry about it! That is the ticket to skirt wearing freedom. If you are labeled as LGBTQ+, so what? The most important thing for new skirt wearers is to go about your business as you normally would. If you act like a scared rabbit you will be shunned and ostracized. Confidence is everything. I wish that I had learned this lesson 30 years ago.

Also remember the following saying:

Those who matter don’t mind, and those who mind, don’t matter.

[LiuBang]

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

Not precisely at this moment, but that time is closing in very, very quickly. Pretty soon the mere act of shoving both legs down one pipe will be construed at proof. We -- as men in skirts need to discriminate ourselves from those who use the skirt as a signifier of being on the SD Spectrum. Else the cause is lost for another 50 or 75 years.

Interesting. Then why is there this big thread with other members saying, "don't worry, most people know we are not trans?"

[Coder]

So you're saying that the proliferation of LGBTQ+ is hurting the visibility of cis-MIS because now people assume that a guy in a skirt is LGBTQ?

Not precisely at this moment, but that time is closing in very, very quickly. Pretty soon the mere act of shoving both legs down one pipe will be construed at proof. We -- as men in skirts need to discriminate ourselves from those who use the skirt as a signifier of being on the SD Spectrum. Else the cause is lost for another 50 or 75 years.

Interesting. Then why is there this big thread with other members saying, "don't worry, most people know we are not trans?"

Some of us - well at least me - have checked out of life. Oh, I’m existing - but screw the world. So nothing really matters anymore, at least that’s my current perspective.